PIE Trading Strategy Review
If you’ve arrived at this page, it’s probably because you’ve heard some of the hype about this system, and want to know if it really performs.
I recommend that you take a look at some of the comments below, which come from real traders using the system, including regular updates from myself about how my trading is going.
Feedback from PIE members
I’ve been receiving a very interesting stream of emails from users of the PIE Trading system.
I felt I had to share them with you … but I should warn you … I’ve taken the decision not to edit these down.
It was tempting just to give you the edited highlights of these, but I’ve decided to publish them in full (except for removing a few bits which give too much detail on the strategy), and – yes – some of them are rather lengthy. But I really wanted you to see all the details of what’s involved and how much money this makes.
Reading other traders first-hand experiences can be the best way to judge whether something is right for you.
Like Brian, who explains his journey in detail …
“Now is probably an appropriate time to give you an update of where I am with your trading system. As you will be aware I attended your Sheffield-based training course in March last year together with about nine other hopefuls. An enjoyable day was had and I returned home suitably impressed.
After spending a couple of days back at base studying carefully your well-presented manual, I felt sufficiently confident to open my brokerage account with Interactive Brokers. To be honest this was probably the most difficult bit of the whole exercise. But with aid of your notes and some telephone help from IB the account was opened and funded by early April. I then proceeded to paper trade and fully familiarise myself with their platform for the rest of the month.
By May I felt confident enough to place my first real trade … and was pleased to make 1.27% or 15.24% annualised. Needless to say I was more than happy with that. Since then I have steadily transferred further funds to my trading account using cash that had been languishing in underperforming ISA’s and other deposit accounts which were probably producing about 1.75% per annum! As you know there have been a couple of periods since May when trading conditions were a bit difficult and my positions were challenged on a few occasions. Even so I never made less than 1.06% monthly, with my best return being 1.81%. I consider myself a very conservative trader and there is little doubt that had I wished I could have substantially improved on these figures.
I have now placed approximately 75% of my pension pot in the system and look forward to many more years of profitable trading. Many thanks to you and Paul for developing the system.
Kind Regards, Brian”
Mark was very succinct with his thoughts on the system …
Paul and Glynn
Thanks for your strategy updates over the course of the year, the only course/strategy/method I’ve ever purchased that’s actually worked – and very well! Best wishes to both of you and your families.
Regards, Mark Mellor
And Barns, who is trading PIE with a very sizeable fund …
Hi Glynn, As mentioned in our telephone conversation yesterday, I managed to get 2% on my balance last month, which equates to more than £8,000 so, as you can imagine, I’m loving your system! All the best. Regards, Barns
What stands out for me is that, these aren’t emails from people who’ve had a few winning trades, and are in the first flush of success. These messages show traders who’ve been using the system for a year, or even more and there’s just no let up in the steady stream of profits. You can read even more feedback in the comments section below.
Making 1% or 2% a month may seem very modest. But it can be a lot more comfortable than the ups and downs of trading that many of us are familiar with, where we’re making 20% … giving back 18% …
If these kind of returns look of interest to you, I strongly recommend that you take a closer look at PIE.
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520 comments
VIC TOMKINS
Hi All, sorry to hear but not surprised that Pie strategy users took a beating. I did take the course some time ago but found the options market an expensive market to trade on, and returns not great – ok but not great. I looked at spread betting and my biggest concern here was that unlike options trading you don’t get your premium up front – I felt uncomfortable and looked back at market moves & just felt that despite what was taught by Glynn that there was actually a substantial risk of ruin – so even having paid for the course I chose after a very short period not to trade it. This recent event I see as a meltdown rather than a correction, yes it’s recovered well but there is no guarantee a similar fall won’t be just around the corner. These melt down events happen more often than we think, we’ve seen in recent times the mother of all bull runs and all bubbles eventually burst, the question is always when rather than if. The Pie strategy advice is to take minimal risk – but I suspect even at the recommended minimal risk not everyone would have survived. In principle it’s a no lose strategy but in practice you need extremely deep pockets to keep the trades running through to a profitable conclusion. Again sorry if you did suffer a lasting loss – but if thinking about following the strategy be VERY confident you really understand the risks and VERY mindful of the size of risk you take. Best of Luck Vic
Mayur
Hi Mark
Just wondering if you have had to employ the technique during this time since both Rupen and Trevor have had massive losses?
Mark Rose
Hi Mayur,
I’ve not placed any PIE trades for quite some time.
Originally I sat aside due to concerns over Brexit volatility. I then watched as month after month would have been winning trades.
Luckily for me, this has meant I didn’t have open positions during the resent market correction.
Regards,
Mark
Mark Rose
Hi Rupen,
I’m sorry to hear you have been caught out by the recent market volatility. I suspected this would have been uncomfortable period for those with PIE trades open.
Trading options is a different beast to spread betting and PIE doesn’t have a stop loss in the spread betting sense, but the strategy does include a technique used to mitigate how to deal with losing trades and this would have needed to be employed.
The detail on how this could have been applied and the margin required to do it during the recent volatility, is something to be discussed in the members forum or with Glynn directly.
I had a similar experience in August 2015, which I posted about and you can see in the earlier comments on this thread.
It was a tough decision to employ another trade and I was in a very uncomfortable situation to be in, but on that occasion eventually the markets did recover.
Regards,
Mark
Rupen Shah
Im a PIE user for several years and i must admit i was a convert, but the recent market volatility has shown that this system is not fit for purpose because there is no strict stop loss which all systems should have.
My options account blew up and i am nursing huge losses.
I think it would be fair for Mark to have his say as i dont want this to be a one sided comment, as Mark has promoted it it on his website.
Mark, over to you…..
Trevor
Ian – am puzzled that you would spend thousands on a course, and not apply it?
Anyway, to answer your point about rolling, in the past that has worked, however this time the market moves were so extreme, (and therefore margin requirements rocketed), that no amount of rolling would have got you out of trouble.
Trevor
Recent turmoil in the markets due to the Corona virus has left many PIE traders with massive losses.
So you might want to think very carefully before getting into this.
It seemed only fair to post this warning.
alex buzby
Mark, are u still doing this one ?
Markets are a bit quiet, so not sure what the returns are ?
Al
Mike
Any update on the PIE results Mark? Not seen any for a while.
Cheers
Mike
Alan Thompson
Hi Mark. Do you have a current contact number for IB as all numbers on their site are unobtainable. Thanks Alan Thompson.
Mark Rose
Hi Alan,
Afraid not. I place my trades with IG, rather than using IB.
Regards,
Mark
Henry
You’re profits (some of them) look pretty juicy for the PIE strategy. Can I ask, are you writing both puts AND calls to achieve these returns, or just writing puts?
Mark Rose
Hi Henry,
Afraid I can’t go into detail on the strategy on an open forum for obvious reasons.
Regards,
Mark
Keith Watson
Anyone know what the Australian/UK tax implications are, spread betting on an Australian site such as core spreads.co.,au
Mark Rose
Hi Keith,
You can’t spread bet in Australia so profits are not tax free like they would be if you were placing trades with a spread bet broker in the UK.
Regards,
Mark Rose
Mark Rose
My November PIE trades have closed for a profit, albeit not much of one.
Based on a trading pot of £6500 for a £10 stake my November 18 DAX PIE trade returned 0.66% (£43).
Based on a trading pot of £5200 for a £10 stake my November 18 FTSE PIE trade returned 0.63% (£33).
Glad to say the returns on mt December open trades look much better.
Regards,
Mark
Mark Rose
My October PIE trade closed on Friday.
I only opened a DAX trade, preferring the return to that achievable on the FTSE, but looking at the charts, my normal FTSE trade would have won too.
Based on a trading pot of £6500 for a £10 stake my October 18 DAX PIE trade returned 3.06% (£199).
Regards,
Mark
Greg odonoghue
Hi, i did the course back in 2015. Can I have access to the forum, please?
Greg
Brian Luty
Hi Mark
I have always used DMA to trade Pie. Only downside particularly this year is the big moves that have
Occurred when the options market is closed. Sometimes I have needed to roll positions but not able to until
Markets open at 8:00am. Does using a spread betting firm such as IG get around this problem. In other words
Can you adjust positions out of hours, just as you would with Equities and Indices?
Thanks for your help
Rob Easthope
Hi. Did the PIE course back in May. Could I access the private forum please.
Derrick Turner
Hi
I attended PIE course in July2015 and have found it very successful
Please give me access to the PIE Forum
Mark Rose
Today is the Sept option expiry day and this is when I normally bag my PIE profits.
However, as I was away for a large chunk of August with very limited internet, I didn’t place any PIE trades.
Looking at the markets, my normal FTSE and DAX trade would both have comfortably one.
My October trades are also looking very good to close at profits.
Regards,
Mark
Mark Rose
I’ve had a few questions about the affect of the new margin rules on PIE.
If you read my updates then you know I spread bet PIE rather than trading via direct market access.
Both the DAX and the FTSE now attract a 5% margin rate when being spread bet.
Traditionally, Glynn has recommended I use £5200 of margin for each £10 staked.
For the FTSE (currently at approx 7500) this makes the margin required to open the trade £3750
(7500×5%)x£10=£3750.00
This is still doable from a bank of £5200., but you do need to remember that if my account value fell to below £1875 (50% of £3750) then I would receive a margin call from my broker.
As the DAX is a bigger instrument (currently around 12350) the margin required to open a DAX trade is higher than the FTSE
(12350×5%)x£10=£6175
I’m going to allocate £6500 of my trading funds per £10 staked on the DAX going forward. This will have the effect of reducing the % returns.
If you take the August PIE trade above as an example, this would become;
Based on a trading pot of £6500 for a £10 stake my August 18 DAX PIE trade returned 1.20% (£78).
A % reduction of 0.3%, but still an actual profit of £78 per £10 staked.
Regards,
Mark
Mark Rose
Realised I need to update my results on here since May 2018.
In June I only traded the DAX as this was offering better returns. I placed two trades
Based on a trading pot of £5200 for a £10 stake my first June 18 DAX PIE trade returned 3.15% (£164).
Based on a trading pot of £5200 for a £10 stake my second June 18 DAX PIE trade returned 1.25% (£65).
I didn’t trade July positions, but they would have won if I had.
My August trades closed as expected.
Based on a trading pot of £5200 for a £10 stake my August 18 DAX PIE trade returned 1.50% (£78).
Based on a trading pot of £5200 for a £10 stake my August 18 FTSE PIE trade returned 1.25% (£65).
Regards,
Mark
Mark Rose
Thanks for the update Trevor. At some point I really do need to start trading PIE using direct market.
My August spread bets close tomorrow and I’m on target to make 1.25% on the FTSE and 1.50% on the Dax.
I didn’t trade the Sept positions as I wanted to wait and see how the new ESMA rules would effect things, plus am away from Saturday for a couple of weeks.
Even with spread betting Glynn always recommended a £5200 pot per £10 staked, so the new margin rules have had a much smaller effect on my PIE trading than other strategies I use.
I have taken some October positions and the recent volatility has meant there are some very nice returns on offer. All being well these should close for a 3.82% return.
I had reason to read my PIE review today and realised that the last time any of my PIE trades came under any pressure was back in Sept 2015.
Every trade since then has won without me needing to do much of anything and I have only ever had to roll trades twice since I started trading PIE in 2014.
Pretty happy with that to be honest.
Regards,
Mark
Trevor
To Greg and all others thinking of joining PIE – my advice would be: DO NOT DO IT !
Due to the new European Union ESMA regulations Margin requirements have made it not worth trading.
You could (if you meet the stringent requirements) register as a professional trader (which is what Exante wanted me to do in order to be allowed to continue trading options), but then you lose the protection of being a retail investor, not to mention any tax implications.
So thanks EU for screwing things up for us!
Trevor
Further to my above comments after further investigation I have confirmed that Saxo seem to take a more reasonable line when it comes to margin requirements. Typically, around £2,500 per position (far far better than IB). Obviously, this could increase in times of high volatility.
So I’m still trading PIE as the returns can still be reasonable (maybe 12 % depending on your attitude to risk) – though I think the golden days of nearer 20% are behind us. Do your own due diligence, and certainly do not trade money that you cannot afford to lose.
John Simon
Hi Mark
I attended a course way back in February 2013. Would be interested in joining the forum if you could arrange.
Regards
John
Mark Norcott
Hi Mark
I would like to gain access to the forum please.
I attended a PIE course in Sheffield in December 2015.
Many thanks
Mark
greg stirling
Hi Mark
Been thinking about attending the PIE course, but now that margin requirements have massively increased using IG, do you know what Saxo’s minimum margin is for this strategy?
Thanks
Mark Rose
PIE results for May 18.
I only traded the DAX as preferred the return on offer in comparison to the FTSE.
Based on a trading pot of £5200 for a £10 stake my May 18 DAX PIE trade returned 2.42% (£126).
June trades looking fine currently.
Regards,
Mark
Rene Trost
hi Mark,
I was on the very first available Course years ago in Sheffield. I am interested in getting into the Forum as i’m interested in the DAX Trading Style and Results.
Mark Rose
Hi Rene,
I’ll email Paul and come back to you with login details.
Regards,
Mark
Eric
Hi Mark
I now have the PIE home study course.
I’d be grateful if you would give me access to the forum.
Thanks
Eric
Hi Mark,
has an assessment been done on the effect of Mifid 2 on this strategy.
If so, could you please let me know.
I am genuinely interested in this strategy and have been for a long time now, only now having managed to save up the course fees.
As I’m sure you understand, when a strategy is offering between 1 and 2 % per month any impact from proposed legislation changes would need careful consideration.
with thanks, in anticipation.
Mark Rose
Hi Eric,
I’m not sure what effect MiFiD II might have on the PIE strategy?
MiFiD II was introduced at the beginning of January 2018 and applies more to how transparent the brokers are being with their customers than it does to those of us trading the PIE strategy using their platforms.
I’ve certainly seen no difference in the way the strategy has performed since it was introduced.
The ESMA has been looking at leverage for spread betting, which could affect the strategy for those of us who choose to spread bet rather than trading direct market. (Glynn prefers direct market access to spread betting and this is the method most of the PIE members use).
As yet we do not know when or what the new leverage rules will be, but one of the good things about PIE currently is the initial leverage used (£5200 per £10 staked) is very low in spread betting terms.
Regards,
Mark
Eric
thanks for your help.
Colin McCabe
Hi Mark,
I bought the Home Study version of the PIE course last year.
Is it possible to arrange access to the private forum please?
Thanks
Colin
Mark Rose
Quick update on my PIE trades.
Based on a trading pot of £5200 for a £10 stake my February 18 DAX PIE trade returned 2.42% (£126).
I didn’t trade the FTSE as preferred the returns on offer on the DAX.
Based on a trading pot of £5200 for a £10 stake my March 18 DAX PIE trade returned 6.52% (£339).
Based on a trading pot of £5200 for a £10 stake my March 18 DAX PIE trade returned 6.00% (£312).
Again, preferred to trade the DAX positions (I split my bank across two trades to reduce the risk a bit) as the return were better than on the FTSE.
Nice to see that the increased volatility has improved the returns this month.
Regards,
Mark Rose
David McKay
Hi mark,
I attended the course back in September and previously left a comment.
I’d appreciate access to the private forum if possible please.
I’m interested in learning how to use PIE on a spread betting platform?
Just signed up for the Diff Code Global which you run yourself. 2 losses in my first 2 days then an Amber…slow start haha.
Thanks,
David
Mark Rose
Hi David,
Have we organised this for you now?
The process is we check with Paul/Glynn to confirm you have attended the course and when they confirm, we send you your log in details.
Please come back to me if you haven’t had these yet.
Kind regards,
Mark Rose
Mark Rose
Time to update you will my PIE trades.
We sat out of the December trades as advised to do by Glynn.
I went back in and traded the DAX January positions. I didn’t trade the FTSE as the returns were quite low.
Based on a trading pot of £5200 for a £10 stake my January 18 DAX PIE trade returned 2.85% (£148).
Like October, I didn’t place a FTSE position as the returns were too small.
Personally, I’m happy to increase my exposure on the DAX trades, where the returns are better.
Regards,
Mark
leon
prospective PIE member here from New Zealand with a question. Are the brokerage firms referred to on this forum that seem to be a prerequisite to operating the system successfully able to be used by clients outside of the UK. And further to that, is the spread betting firm generally used (ie, to allow any gains to be tax free) also available to clients residing outside the UK?? Only ask because I wanted to use Core Spreads for a strategy recently, only to discover I was ineligible because I live in NZ. Any help very much appreciated
Antonio Menendez
The return for FTSE positions continue to be ridiculously low at IB. I suppose is the same at Saxo? Any idea if this situation will change soon?
Mark Rose
Hi Antonio,
To see an improvement in the prices we are being offered from IB, Saxo or IG, we will need some more volatility in the market.
Dax returns are still better than FTSE.
Regards,
Mark
David Denholm
Hi Mark, I recently attended the course in September 2017. Would appreciate access to the PIE private forum.
Thanks a lot.
David
Marc Francis
I purchased the PIE course in October 2017, have received the manuals….now waiting to attend a course. Would appreciate access to the PIE private forum Mark. Looking forward to getting started, whenever the OK is given.
Thanks a lot.
Marc
Mark Rose
My November DAX PIE trade has closed for a profit today.
Based on a trading pot of £5200 for a £10 stake my November 17 DAX PIE trade returned 1.44% (£75).
Like October, I didn’t place a FTSE position as the returns were too small.
Personally, I’m happy to increase my exposure on the DAX trades, where the returns are better.
Regards,
Mark
Garrie Harrington
Hi Mark,
I recently completed the PIE Home Study Course.
Can you please allow me access to the Forum.
Thanking you in advance.
Regards
Garrie
Anthony Gorringe
Hi Mark,
I see that PIE is still listed under your “Strategies I’m Using” header, so can we assume that you have decided to ignore Paul and Glynn’s advice about ceasing all PIE trading for the time being?
Many thanks
Tony
Mark Rose
Hi Tony,
I ended up taking three new Dax positions yesterday.
Prices and spread on Jan positions tempted me back in and it was your post that made me look.
IG were offering a 3 point spread on Jan Dax options, it’s more normally 5 or 6 points and the returns were in the 3 to 3.5% range, which is the best I’ve seen for a while,
Up until yesterday, I hadn’t closed any of my open positions like I was supposed to, but had held off opening any new ones.
I wasn’t posting this as it runs against what Glynn has told us to do, so I’ve gone a bit rouge.
Even without these trades, I still consider PIE as a system I’m trading. I believe Glynn is going to be updating us pretty soon on the improvement to the system, which I think is about covering risk if you are unable to respond to major market moves (you’ve been hit by a bus or similar), and normal trading should resume soon.
Regards,
Mark
Tony
Hi Mark,
Thanks for the reply. It seems a bit strange of Paul and Glynn to issue that rather melodramatic “get out of all PIE trades immediately ” warning, and then keep so frustratingly silent about it, offering explanation or reasoning for it. It’s been over three weeks now!
Good luck with the Dax trades
Tony
Trevor
Hi Tony
There have been no posts by Mark on this or the members forum for many weeks now so what conclusions should we all draw from that?
Best Wishes
Trevor
Mark Rose
None?
Steve Osborne
Hi Mark,
I attended the PIE training In September, and would like access to the private forum.
Thank you,
Steve
Mark Rose
Oct PIE trade results.
For the 1st time ever I didn’t place the FTSE trade as the return was just too small. Instead, I doubled up on the DAX trade, which worked out quite well.
Based on a trading pot of £5200 for a £10 stake my October 17 DAX PIE trade returned 1.92% (£100).
Regards,
Mark
Tony
Hi Mark,
Have you seen Paul and Glynns “doomsday” email? I would be interested to know what your reaction to it was, and if you closed your positions as suggested.
There is a lot of comment about it on the private forum.
Best wishes
Tony
Trevor
Hi Mark
I echo Tony’s question, because I now have a good sum of cash sitting there doing nothing.
When are we going to get an update from Paul and Glynn, or are you as in the dark as the rest of us ?
Regards
Trevor
Chris Parks
Hi Mark,
I did the course in London on the 27th.
Would it be possible to get a login for the forum?
Best,
Chris
Mark Rose
Hi Chris, you should get the details you need by email today. Mark
David Mckay
Hi Mark,
I did the course yesterday in London, paul and Glynn can confirm.
I’d like to join the forum if possible please.
Thanks
David
Mark Rose
Sept PIE trade results.
Based on a trading pot of £5200 for a £10 stake my Sept 17 FTSE PIE trade returned 0.73% (£38).
Based on a trading pot of £5200 for a £10 stake my August 17 DAX PIE trade returned 1.44% (£75).
Regards,
Mark
Keith Watson
Hi Mark,
I have been trading the PIE system for coming up to 1 year now although I haven’t traded every I decided to sit out over December 2016 and the first 3 months of 2017 consequently I’ve only returned 12.2%. I’ve stopped using IG because the returns were paltry but I haven’t checked them for around 3 or 4 months.
Presently I’m trading 2 months forward currently I have positions in October and November.
I have to admit that although Paul went into great detail on how to defend your position in the event of a market volatility, I was, and still am a little nervous about doing this, but am gradually relaxing with ongoing trading.
Thanks for all your help
Mark
Hi Mark and all,
My Aug FTSE & DAX Option Trades closed out on Friday for a combined profit of 2.40%
Regards
Mark
Reply
Mark Rose
Hi Mark,
That’s much better than I did.
Based on a trading pot of £5200 for a £10 stake my August 17 FTSE PIE trade returned 0.73% (£38).
Based on a trading pot of £5200 for a £10 stake my August 17 DAX PIE trade returned 0.85% (£44).
Regards,
Mark
Mark
Hi Mark and all,
My July FTSE & DAX Option Trades closed out on Friday for a combined profit of 2.44%
Regards
Mark
Mark Rose
Today is options expiry day and my PIE trades have closed for more profits.
Based on a trading pot of £5200 for a £10 stake my July 17 FTSE PIE trade returned 1.46% (£76).
Based on a trading pot of £5200 for a £10 stake my July 17 DAX PIE trade returned 1.21% (£63).
Regards,
Mark
kenneth phillips
I did the home study in 30/03/2017. could I have access to the PIE fourm thanks kenneth
Mark Rose
Hi Kenneth,
Logins should now have been sent over.
Regards,
Mark
Ross Keeley
Hi Mark
I bought the home base study course this month (Paul & Glynn can confirm).
Would it be possible to get the SB guide and access to the forum please?
Thanks and best regards
Mark Rose
Hi Ross,
Logins should have now been sent?
Regards,
Mark
Simon Haddad
Hello,
I purchaased the pie home study 2 yrs ago with the Alias Simon Haddad.
I hope I can get access to the spread betting guide along with the pie forum
Best regards
Mark Rose
Hi Simon,
logins should have been sent.
Thanks,
Mark
Jon McHale
Hi Mark,
I attended the PIE course in Rotherham this month.
Would it be possible to get your P.I.E SpreadBetting guide and also have access to the P.I.E forum?
Kind Regards,
Jon
Jon McHale
Hi Mark,
Any news on access yet?
Regards,
Jon
Mark Rose
Hi Jon,
I’m presuming you’ve been sent logins now?
Regards,
Mark
Mark
Hi Mark and all,
June options expired today.
Another 1.77% profit on a single FTSE contract.
Total profit so far, 30.98% in 11 months
🙂
Mark
Mark Rose
Thanks Mark, more good results.
My results are;
Based on a trading pot of £5200 for a £10 stake my June 17 FTSE PIE trade returned 0.98% (£58).
Based on a trading pot of £5200 for a £10 stake my June 17 DAX PIE trade returned 2.98% (£155).
Regards,
Mark
steve
Thanks for the reply
That might be the rub…if I can only check the Internet at sporadic times then I won’t be able to intervene if urgent action is needed.
Without knowing the system -are stop orders able to be set up so that if triggered they will get you out of a hole
Thanks
Mark Rose
Afraid stop orders aren’t available on option trades
Regards,
Mark
steve
Dear all
I have known of this system for a while but have not been in a position to pay for it or commit to it.
Does it really not take a lot of time to put into practice?
If something goes wrong do you need to unwind your trade immediately as I cannot access my phone (internet) during normal working hours
To make a decent second income eg 500 per month what kind of capital is needed
Any comments appreciatedo
Regards Steve
Mark Rose
Hi Steve,
Placing the trade take a few minutes and as has been the case for nearly two years, if all goes well, there is nothing extra you need to do.
If a trade moves aggressively and quickly against you to the point that you need to take action, then you do need to be able to monitor/amend positions during the day.
Returns depend on how aggressive you are, but I’d estimate most PIE members are looking for 1.5% to 2.5% return per month.
If £500= 2%, then £500×50 =100%
£500×50=£25,000 pot.
Kind regards,
Mark
Vincent C
Hi Mark
Any news with regards to the access to the private forum and the SB guide?
I believe you should have heard from Paul as he was replying to me those last days?
Cheers
V
Vincent C
Thanks Mark, all set with the forum. If you could send me the SB guide, that would be great!
I can see the private forum is quite busy, which is very good.
All the best
V
Trevor
To Vincent
Welcome to PIE.
Here are a couple of points to bear in mind (which you do not learn on the course, at least not when I did it):
1. I initially chose IB to direct trade but am now midstream switching to Saxo, and this is why. You pay slightly more in dealing costs, but Saxo do not charge this pernicious “exposure fee” which can add up to several hundred pounds a year (depending how much you have invested obviously) – so Saxo actually work out cheaper. I also prefer their trading platform.
2. You may not be able to open an account in your wife’s name unless she has some trading experience (neither IB or Saxo would allow it), unless of course you bend the truth. I am speaking from experience.
Anyway, good luck with the trading, maybe speak with you on the dedicated PIE forum.
Cheers
Trevor
Vincent C
Hi Trevor
Thank you so much for your reply indeed!
I thought Saxo minimum deposit funding requirement was set at 50K, but I can see now their trader account is minimum 6.5K ?
Would you be kind to confirm this ti us?
Many thanks!
V
Trevor
Hi Vincent
You are correct, it is now 6.5K.
Regards
Trevor
Vincent C
Cheers Trevor for the confirmation. that’s great they have lowered the minimum funding requirement. I’m in the process to add a Saxo account along with my IB account 🙂
Mark Rose
Hi Trevor,
Thanks very much for taking the time to reply to Vincent, it really helps to have existing PIE members posting here with advice and is very much appreciated.
Regards,
Mark
Vincent C
Just a daft question (please do not laugh at me!!) but … (wait for it): does H&L offer options trading in their SIPP?
I’ve one with them, very haopy, so if they I could trade PIE in my SIPP with them, that would be great!
I can of course ask them directly!
Cheers
V (P.I.E newbie)
Mark Rose
Hi Vincent,
I think the answer is probably not.
Some PIEmembers are managing to trade PIE through their SIPPS, but only those who have been doing so for some time.
More recently the main brokers who offer options are not allowing new members to trade options in the way we do from within a SIPP.
Do you know which brokers H&L trade via?
Regards,
Mark
Vincent C
Hi Mark,
It looks like H&L trade via IG.
Best
V
Mark Rose
IG are a spread betting firm, they don’t offer direct market access to option.
Main two direct access brokers are Saxo and Interactive Brokers, so normally I’d expect it to be one of these.
You can spreadbet PIE, but as spread betting is tax-free in the UK, there is little advantage to doing this within a SIPP.
Regards,
Mark Rose
Vincent C
Hi Mark,
I’ve finished the Home P.I.E course. That’s really excellent and so well explained. I sent my congrats to Paul and Glynn!
3K well spent!
And I’m now convinced to go through the DMA (Interactive Broker) route to trade P.I.E.
Only when taxable profits will be over 11K (and I can still use my wife’s name to open another account with IB and get 11K of free capital gain tax), then I’ll think to spread betting.
My main worry is when things are going against us (can’t say more here but you see what I mean), DMA is much more powerful.
Cheers
V
Vincent C
Hi Mark
I’ve just bought the P.I.E Home training pack, have referred you to Paul and Glynn.
Would it be possible to get your P.I.E SpreadBetting guide and also have access to the P.I.E forum?
I’ve also sent you a mail.
Many thanks!
Best
Mark Rose
Hi Vincent,
I’ve emailed Paul to confirm and will come back to you via email.
Regards,
Mark
Tony
Hi Mark
Could you get me access to the PIE forum please.
Mark Rose
Just opened my new FTSE and DAX PIE trades in less than 5 minutes, hopefully, this will be all the time I need to spend on PIE for the next month.
Regards,
Mark
P.S. There are still some places left on the June seminar!
Mark
Hi Mark and all,
FTSE (0.26%) & Dax (2.10%) closed out on Friday for a combined Profit of 2.36%
Regards
Mark
Mark Rose
Today is options expiry day and it will come as no surprise that both my FTSE and DAX PIE trades have closed for a profit.
I think it’s now been 21 months since I have had to hedge a trade.
Based on a trading pot of £5200 for a £10 stake my May 17 FTSE PIE trade returned 0.33% (£17)*.
Based on a trading pot of £5200 for a £10 stake my May 17 DAX PIE trade returned 1.5% (£78).
Regards,
Mark
* I mucked up the entry on this trade, my return should have been between 1 and 2%.
Michael
Hi Mark,
I attended the PIE course in Rotherham in March 2014. Could I have access to the forum please?
regards,
Michael
Adrienne Brown
HI Mark, I attended the course in London in Feb 17 and have spoken to Paul and Glynn (who are really willing to spend the time speaking to help). Please could I join the private forum?
Many thanks
Adrienne
Mike
To Mark or anyone actively trading PIE, I asked the following question back on the 22nd March which was never answered……………
Could you clarify something for me regarding PIE. From reading your previous posts and report, I am assuming that a back up/reserve pot of money is required should a ‘black swan’ type event happen. Does this have to be a set percentage of the trading pot? Ie, is it 10%, 20%, 50% etc? As an example, if I had say £50,000 in total, how much of this could be used as my trading pot and how much would have to be kept in reserve?
Could you please answer?
Many thanks
Mike
Mark Rose
Hi Mike,
Could I suggest you give Glynn a call 07905 906399.
It’s always difficult to go into too much detail about the specifics on the open forum, where Glynn might be able to explain more thoroughly.
As I spread bet PIE and trade on margin, then the vast majority of my pot is there to manage the risk.
For example, a £10 per point trade requires approx £300 of initial margin to open the position, but Glynn recommends we have a trading pot of £5200 per £10 staked.
As long as you are able to access the funds quickly if required, then where you choose to keep these funds is up to you, but doesn’t necessarily need to be in your broker’s account.
Regards,
Mark
Trevor
The PIE system recommends a safe margin amount that is used per lot traded. Beyond that, there is no point in keeping any further money (ie a reserve) in your account, except to take advantage of favourable market moves.
Sorry, cannot be more precise in an open forum.
Walter
Hello Mark How do I go about signing up to the forum?
Mark Rose
Hi Walter,
I’ve emailed Paul to confirm it’s ok for you to join and will be in touch.
Regards,
Mark
Danny
Hello Mark
I completed the course on 4th September 2012 and have been trading this on & off over the years.
I have been waiting a long time for some kind of forum to become available to communicate with other students.
Please would you kindly provide me access to the secure forum at your earliest convenience 🙂
Regards
Danny
James Wilson
Hi Mark,
I attended the 20/4/17 course in Rotherham, could I also please be enrolled into the PIE forum.
Many Thanks
James
Paula Tobin
Thank you Mark. My name is Paula by the way (only pointing it out so the name u give to Paul Bent
matches up lol!)
Mark Rose
Sorry about changing your gender! I’ve corrected that now.
Regards,
Mark
Paula Tobin
Hi Mark,
I attended the PIE course on 20/04/17 in Rotherham and very good it was too. Can you now send me
your ‘How to spreadbet PIE’ report and also enrol me on the PIE forum please.
Many Thanks
Paula
Mark Rose
Hi Paula,
I will confirm with Paul and then send login details over.
Regards,
Mark
Charlie
Hi Mark
do you have an affiliate code to enter in the ‘ref box’ on the PIE application form?
Mark Rose
Hi Charlie,
Not a code as such, just enter “Mark Rose” or “Thames Publishing” and that will do.
Many thanks
Mark Rose
Mark
Morning all,
Bit late in reporting my closed April positions but here goes…………….
FTSE & Dax contracts expired last Friday giving me a total of 2.70% profit
Regards
Mark
Reply
Philip McDermott
Hi Mark, just attended the Pie course in Rotherham, very enlightening day and left the place feeling very optomistic. Would like to join your forum to hone my newfound skill’s and meet other’s to maybe clarify a few point’s, anyway hope to hear from you soon and thank’s for guiding me to a product with such potential, cheer’s Phil McD.
Mark Rose
Hi Philip,
We will send you over the details by email
Kind regards,
Mark
Phil
Hi Mark. Any progress on getting me access to the secure forum. It has been nearly two months now since I applied.
Love the PIE system
Phil
Mark Rose
Sorry this took so long, I believe it ‘s all now sorted and you have access?
Regards,
Mark
Michael
Hi Mark,
I went on the course in November 2014 and would like to join the forum. Please could you confirm with Paul & Glynn.
Thank,
Michael
Mark Rose
Hi Michael,
We will send you the details you need by email.
Regards,
Mark
Tim
Hi Mark,
I presume that Paul and Glynn are back now. Have they confirmed to you yet about me having attended the course in July 2012? My first post about this was on 24th Feb.
Thanks
Tim
Mark Rose
Hi Tim,
I think you are all sorted now?
Come back to me if not.
Thanks
Mark
Tim
Mark,
I haven’t received any login details yet by email. When are the likely to be sent to me?
Thanks
Tim
Mark Rose
Hi Tim,
Ok, I’ll chase Paul up.
Sorry for the delay.
Mark Rose
Tim
Hi Mark,
Access sorted out today. Thanks for creating the forum.
Regards
Tim
Stuart holden
Hi Mark I attended back in Jan 13 , can you send me details to access Forum. I never got started on pie due to personal issues and am gutted looking back how much I could have made.
Many thanks
Stuart
Mark Rose
Hi Stuart,
There will be a lot more opportunities. We will send you over the details.
Regards,
Mark
Craig Bowles
Hi Mark,
I first attended the PIE course up in Rotherham back in July 2012 and would love to join your forum, so that I can sharpen up my skills an start trading again.
I am a bit of a lapsed PIE trader due to the company I am working for until Easter, which prevents me from trading (IG) and I don’t like City Index.
Best wishes
Craig
Mark Rose
Hi Craig,
I think you are now all sorted with logins?
Come back to me if not.
Regards,
Mark
Craig
Hi Mark,
Still not has any login details
Regards
CB
Mark Rose
Ok, sorry about that, I’ve chased this up for you.
Regards,
Mark
Mike
Hello Mark,
Could you clarify something for me regarding PIE. From reading your previous posts and report, I am assuming that a back up/reserve pot of money is required should a ‘black swan’ type event happen. Does this have to be a set percentage of the trading pot? Ie, is it 10%, 20%, 50% etc? As an example, if I had say £50,000 in total, how much of this could be used as my trading pot and how much would have to be kept in reserve?
Hope that makes sense.
Many thanks
Mike
Mark
Afternoon all,
My March FTSE & Dax contracts expired last Friday giving me a total of 3.06% (think I might have overtraded slightly, mustn’t get greedy or complement, those black swans will be along any day soon!)
Regards
Mark
Mark Rose
Friday was option expiry day and as expected, both my FTSE and DAX PIE positions won.
That’s now 19 months since I have had to hedge a trade (which I’ve only had to do twice in 38 months since I started trading PIE).
The lack of volatility in the market is affecting the returns at the moment, so these are lower than what we have been used to, but I’ve no doubt more volatility is on the way as we approach Brexit.
Based on a trading pot of £5200 for a £10 stake my March 17 FTSE PIE trade returned 0.63% (£33).
Based on a trading pot of £5200 for a £10 stake my March 17 DAX PIE trade returned 1.79% (£93).
As has been the way recently, I have taken bigger positions on the Dax trade for obvious reasons.
Regards,
Mark
Vic
Hi Mark, any update from Glynn & Paul, it would be good to be in touch with other Pie users – just a quick reminder I attended the Jan course in Sheffield, Cheers Vic
Mark Rose
Hi Vic,
I’ve had the ok back from Paul, so will send you over the login details later.
Kind regards,
Mark
John Reynolds
Hi Mark,
Completed PIE course in January and would like to join the forum.
Is there any further info you require
Thanks.
John
Mark Rose
Hi John
welcome to the PIE club.
I’ve emailed Glynn and will send you an email with login details, once I hear back from him.
Kind regards,
Mark
John Reynolds
Hi Mark,
Any news on joining the forum?
John
Stan
Hi Mark,
Just to say I attended the PIE course in Jan this year at Sheffield, and I have to say it was presented excellently by both Paul & Glynn. I have been paper trading PIE ever since and I have no doubt my returns will be in line with other reports that have been written about this system. My account with IB is fully funded ready to go live, but like others have said the trading platform can be confusing at times. So access to a private members area would be useful. To this end can you please submit my email to Paul & Glynn for verification please???
For others currently ‘sitting on the fence’ with this system, give it a go I don’t think you will be disappointed.
Mark Rose
Hi Stan,
I’ve just emailed then.
Regards,
Mark
Pierre
Hi,
I took the course back in March 2015 and have traded it consistently ever since, I won’t post my results here but they are consistent with others who have; although I am probably a little more conservative than many.
The method is simple and easy to apply, I had some previous experience with Traded Options which may have helped a little but there really is nothing complicated about the process.
You do need to be a little disciplined with it as its easy to get greedy and start taking silly risks, but as long as you stick within the guidelines and keep your expectations real you will enjoy great returns compared to any near-zero-risk returns available elsewhere.
The actual course I attended in London was enjoyable and at a nice pace, there were about seven others there and Glynn and Paul were excellent hosts.
I’d also say that now we have the PIE private members’ area on this site the value of the course has increased substantially. In just the first few days of the live forum I’ve discovered some nice little tweaks that I can make to my own approach.
Plus if you’re just starting out with the method its a great way to build confidence, to ask questions in a friendly, supportive environment and see that others are really using it successfully.
So, thank you Mark, for listening to our frustrated cries for a private forum, persevering and delivering!
Cheers
Pierre
Tim
ok thanks mark
Tim
mark,
is it the case if we buy onto the PIE course through your link you provide some additional ways of trading the PIE system which can make it more profitable? Tim
Mark Rose
Hi Tim,
We’ve started a members-only forum where it’s possible to discuss the strategy in more detail. I and others do look to take additional positions if the market conditions are right.
I have also written a report on how I spread bet the strategy rather than use direct market access, which is available to you once you have attended the course.
Regards,
Mark Rose
Vic
Hi Mark & others,
I attended the course in January and am setting up ready to trade, but I have to say the IB platform is driving me insane. I doesn’t look anything like it did when I attended the course. I had this problem initially asked Glynn for some help, although he responded his response wan’t any help. I applied for another account doing exactly what I had done before ant this time I was actually able to see a screen which was at least similar if not the same as the one on the course. Having had my account cleared by IB I’m ready to fund it, but back to the paper trading account to refresh, and once again it’s unreadable – well I can read it but it makes no sense whatsoever, & believe me I’m not entirely thick!!
Is anyone else having problems with IB, The IG screen is easy to understand but on IB I cant even see the strike prices in the option chains.
While I’m on Mark, and sorry for the frustrated feel of this comment, could you let me have your info on spread trading, and let me know how I can gain access to the forum you have set up.
Cheers Vic
Tony
Hi Vic
I totally agree about IB – it’s just so user unfriendly!
Which part of IB are you using – Trader Workstation or Webtrader? I’m using the ordinary TWS (not “latest” or “beta”) and on that I use Classic (not Mosaic), and eventually it seems to become usable.
Hope this helps, but let me know if you want more details.
Tony
Mark Rose
Hi Vic,
I’ve emailed Paul and once I’ve got his ok I’ll send over the report and sign up for the forum.
Paul and Glynn are away, so I’m afraid there will be a bit of a delay in coming back to you.
Regards,
Mark
Tim
Mark,
How can I join the private forum, I attended the course in July 2012 which Paul and Glynn will be able to confirm.
Thanks
Mark Rose
Hi Tim,
I’ve emailed Paul to confirm and will be back in touch once he has.
I do know that Paul and Glynn are both away at the moment, so it might be a few days before i hear back from him.
Regards,
Mark
Tim
Thanks Mark, I’ll wait until I hear back from you.
Tim
Mark
Hi Mark & All,
Attended the course in June 16 which was a thorough and enjoyable day and have been trading PIE now for 7 months, with the following returns.
Aug 3.08%
Sep 3.21%
Oct 3.57%
Nov 3.80%
Dec 2.3%
Jan 2.98%
Feb 2.11%
If I have done my math’s correctly? that is a Total of 21.05% in 7 months averaging 3.00% return per month.
Except for the Brexit vote and the US election where the markets were very volatile for a day or so (although our positions were nowhere near challenged) it has been uneventful and somewhat boring to be honest.
Just a case of every month old positions close, profit, open new ones, close, profit repeat………(I can get used to this 🙂
Although the training and manuals go into great detail, the actual process, the nitty gritty if you like of how, when and why to trade is as simple as it gets.
No complicated chart reading, interpretations or guesswork, just a simple mathematical calculation to be made once a month and a daily (for me) monitoring of political events and the market in general.
Hope that is of some interest.
Regards
Mark
Sanj
HI Mark,
I just attended the Feb Course.
If you don’t mind me asking, what pot size are you using?
Sanj
Mark Rose
Hi Sanj,
Pot size is based on a multiple of a £5200 pot per £10 stake per trade.
I’m not going to go into detail of my pot size as everybody’s personal positions are different and it is the ratio of available funds to the stake that is important.
What I will say is I am using PIE as the backbone of my trading and am more heavily invested in this than any other strategy I am currently using.
Regards,
Mark
Mark Rose
I’m glad to say there has been a great response from the existing PIE members to the new PIE members secure forum.
We’re in the process of checking details and sending out logins today, so if you’ve requested to join, you should see an email from us today/tomorrow.
What I hope this means (and this is certainly what I’m requesting) is that we can generate a lot more posts from existing PIE members to enquiries about PIE, rather than responses just coming from me.
One of the hardest things is to get on any forum is regular contributions and updates from existing members, which of course is the one of the main things potential members would really like to see!
So if you are an existing PIE member, it would be wonderful if you could take a little time to tell us what you think of the strategy (obviously we can’t go into detail on the system itself) and give us an idea of the sort of returns you have been generating.
Regards,
Mark
Phil
Hi Mark can you add me to the secure forum please. I went on the PIE trading last May
Phil
Mark Rose
Hi Phil,
I’ve emailed Paul for confirmation and will come back to you.
Unfortunately, both Paul and Glynn are away at the moment, so it might be a few days before you hear back from me.
Regards,
Mark
Neil L
Has anyone spread betting the PIE system responded to the FCA consultation regarding spread betting and the huge increases in margin requirement proposed to cover the spread bet. This could mean having to have a lot more capital tied up in the account to cover margin requirement. In my own case I keep as little as possible in the account and keep an eye on things to be ready to inject some money in on the rare occasions it may be required by sudden market moves. It could have quite a large impact on my ROI.
Seems to be nanny state nonsense to me!
Phil
Hi Neil
I looked into trading PIE within a SIPP. There are several providers on the IB website if you search it. However you should be aware that IB treat a SIPP account as a pension and as such charge 300% more margin on trades. I therefore did not go ahead with it as I would rather place 3 times as many trades. However, when I have built up my pot I may revisit that decision.
Hope that helps
Phil
Mark Rose
Hi Neil,
I’ve responded in general, but not specifically regarding PIE.
I’ve been syphoning off profits from my spread bet accounts into a mortgage offset account for years, which has had the lovely effect of meaning my mortgage should be paid off 10 years early, but the funds are there if I need them.
For this reason I tend to keep my spread bet accounts underfunded and top up if necessary, so any adjustments to margin requirements is going to be a double whammy for me.
That said, Glynn’s recommendation of £5200 pot per £10 staked on PIE is the same as if trading direct access and very conservative, so we should be ok as far as PIE trades go.
Having had an occasion where I needed to quickly add funds to my spread bet account (which can happen when following PIE if you haven’t got sufficient funds in the the account), I ‘ve tended to hold a bigger reserve in this account anyway.
Theoretically adding funds to your account is simple enough to do, but in reality transferring relatively large chunks of money quickly (and in my case whilst out of the country, with very poor internet and phone coverage) can be difficult, so as far as PIE is concerned i’ve decided it’s better to have the funds sitting in the account to call on if necessary (which of course they haven’t been since).
With more traditional types of spread bets, we tend to only risk 2% or so of our total pot per trade and as long as I have the funds in the account to cover any open positions, plus some surplus to open any new trades that I might want to, I keep the majority of the fund outside of the spread bet account.
Kind regards,
Mark Rose
Hernus
Hi
Has anybody here done the homes study course?
Is it self explanatory?
Can you successfully implement the PIE strategy from only doing the home study course without any interaction with the original teachers?
Thanks
andy
Hi Hernus
i agree with Tony.
i did the home study due to work commitments and after a period of demo trading, have had no issues.
only had to speak to Glynn & Paul twice early on & they responded very quickly
i spread bet with IG rather than IB because (at the time the deposit required was smaller & i was spread betting already) so i’m afraid i can’t comment on trading with IB.
Would i have gained more from going to the course ? possibly, as you would be walked through it all & there would of been a lot of questions raised by peeps on the day.
But, as the manual covers just about everything, i don’t think it’s a big deal (for me )not attending in person.
HTH
Tony
Hi Hernus,
I was unable to attend the course in person so just did the home study course, which I found to be very easy to understand and self explanatory. Any queries I had were answered by Paul or Glynn, so whereas I would suggest that you attend the course if you possibly can, don’t let it put you off buying the home study course if you can’t! I think you need to appreciate that the PIE strategy is very discretionary in its trades – there are suggestions but no hard and fast rules for entering the trades, as everyone has different attitudes to risk and reward, but the decision making process is explained in great detail.
I would point out that the private forum is now up and running, which I think will be a tremendous help boosting confidence and getting your head around the PIE concept.
Mark Rose
As expected my two PIE trades have closed for profits today.
Based on a trading pot of £5200 for a £10 stake my Feb 17 FTSE PIE trade returned 0.46% (£24).
Based on a trading pot of £5200 for a £10 stake my Feb 17 DAX PIE trade returned 2.17% (£113).
As has been the way recently, I have taken bigger positions on the Dax trade for obvious reasons.
Regards,
Mark
Mark
Hi Mark and all,
Great news about the forum, looking forward to getting involved.
Feb’s trades all closed for a combined profit of 2.11% 🙂
Regards
Mark
andy
Hello Mark,
Were all On course for another nice gain tomorrow
i notice you leave it till Monday to look for new trades.
What’s the reasoning behind not looking Friday ?
Thanks Andy
Mark Rose
Hi Andy,
Unexpected market moving news is often released after the Friday close, so where possible I prefer to be out of the market over the weekend.
That said, if the returns looked good on the Friday, I would take the trades.
Regards,
Mark
andy
Something to consider i suppose, but then again, without a crystal ball………..
And of course, once we’re in a position, then the markets gonna do what the market does.
It’ll be good when we can discuss this type of thing in the private forum as it’s quite difficult not to give too much away
Regards Andy
DS
Hi Mark,
I too attended the course yesterday…. keen to put my education into practice via IG, can you also send me through your Spreadbet report?
thanks
DS
Sanj
Hi Mark,
I attended the course yesterday. One of the best decisions I have ever made. – I thank you for this!
I will be using this strategy for the rest of my life. I would, however, like to explore the spread betting route – would you be able to send me the details for this?
Thanks in advance,
Sanj
Mark Rose
Hi Sanj,
I’m glad you enjoyed the course. Feb PIE trades close tomorrow and I will be looking to get back in with new positions on Monday, so this will be your first chance to put what you’ve learned into practise.
I’ve just sent Paul an email to get the ok. Once I’ve heard back, I’ll email my spreadbet report over to you.
Kind regards,
Mark Rose
Mark Rose
It’s proving to be quite a week here at Traders Bulletin Towers.
My PIE trades are looking good and barring something pretty major happening (I really should know better than posting comments like this!) it will be more PIE profits come Friday.
But, possibly even more exciting is I now have the software installed to set up the new secure PIE members area. So if you’re already using the system and would like to be able to chat to other PIE members, then watch this space as I expect to be inviting you to join very soon.
Regards,
Mark
P.S. The other exciting news is the Bread and Butter software we have been working on for more than 2 years, is finally shortening in as I wanted it to. Still lots of testing to do, but it looks like we have got shortening in sussed!
DS
Hi mark,
Yes I read through it last night, I must say the results look fantastic year on year. Would you send out the spread bet report after I have signed up for the system or would Glynn or Paul send that through with the manuals?
DS
I have read many positive comments about PIE over the years, on the verge of taking the plunge!
Is there anyone out there that has come forward to say that they have had limited success using the strategy? Or any negative comments on the strategy?
Also are you able to post your results to date if possible, interested in going down the spreadbeting route.
Mark Rose
Hi DS,
Have you downloaded my PIE report (there’s a sign up box at the top of the page)? This is a warts and all appraisal, including the time I found myself with a margin call back in August 2015.
Regards,
Mark
Pierre
Hi Mark,
In case you didn’t know, the new testimonials slider feature at the top of this page makes it almost impossible to read the comments as the page keeps bouncing up and down as a different length testimonial is loaded!
Cheers
Pierre
Mark Rose
I hadn’t realised that – thanks for letting me know. I’ll get it fixed.
Neil Lievesley
‘Very interesting comments regarding @SIPP. I have emailed them several times and had no response regarding trading options in a SIPP after Glynn Calvert advised me that @SIPP might be able to offer me something. I must confess having set up a SIPP previously only to have the frustration of not being allowed to trade Options when I had made it clear what I was planning to do and subsequent discussions with IB and the SIPP provider came to nothing I didn’t pursue @SIPP as hard as I might have ordinarily. I would be interested to have a contact name for @SIPP if possible and I am aware of others (PIE Members) who would also be very keen.
I am waiting with interest to see the members only PIE blog get going Mark., It will be fascinating to see what other takes etc. are being used to trade PIE. I personally just trade the DAX, but with great success. I have not posted on here before and have read the comments with interest. Just for the record I found my piece of PIE in 2013 and can confirm that it is without any doubt the only sensible way to make money from the financial markets. It truly is an income for life.’
Hope my comments are of interest. Thanks.
Neil
Mark
Hi Mark & all…….again!
Maths was never my strong suit!!
My previous combined 2.11% profit should have read 2.98%, every little helps 🙂
And thanks for the Forum update Mark.
Regards
Mark
Mark Rose
January DAX trade has now closed for a much more acceptable return.
Based on a trading pot of £5200 for a £10 stake my Jan 17 DAX PIE trade returned 2.75% (£143).
Regards,
Mark
Mark Rose
Apologies the members area isn’t up and running yet, I have chased our IT people again today and will push this through.
I’m also knee deep in trying to find a way to trade PIE via a pension and will update you on this when and if I get anywhere.
If there is anybody out there doing this, then please get in touch.
Currently, I’m in the process of setting up a SIPP (or possibly a SSAS) so that I can purchase a commercial property (if you own a Limited Company then you really should take a look into this, especially if you don’t own the property your business is based in) and am hoping to also include trading options within it.
Finding IFA’s or SIPP administrators who even know what options are, is proving quite difficult.
Regards,
Mark
Mike.
Hi Mark,
I look forward to the members area.
FYI information I am currently running my own SIPP and drawing an income from it
SIPP Administrator- @sipp and the broker I use is IB.
@sipp should be able to set up your SIPP as per your requirements.
I find @sipp were very helpful in setting up my sipp but it did take some time to achieve.
Should you require any further information do not hesitate to email me.
Best-Regards
Mike.
Mark Rose
Hi Mike,
Thanks, that’s very helpful, I’ll take a look at @SIPP.
Regards,
Mark
David
Closed 2 FTSE trades today for a good profit and my running return on capital has risen from 56.4% last month to 63.97% today
Mark
Hi Mark and all,
Both FTSE & Dax Jan 17 contracts closed at the expected profit level of a combined total of 2.11%
Slowly slowly 🙂
Regards
Mark
P.S How’s the forum progressing Mark?
Mark Rose
Today is option expiry day and my FTSE trade has now closed for a profit.
Personally, because of the lower returns the FTSE trade have been generating recently, I have mainly been invested in the DAX option positions, but have still been placing a FTSE trade so as to have an accurate track record to report here.
Based on a trading pot of £5200 for a £10 stake my Jan 17 FTSE PIE trade returned 0.87% (£45).
Regards,
Mark
Raj Bhatia
Hi Paul, Mark and all.
Sorry for the late reply. This a copy of the email from Saxo reference protection:
Also, would be interested to hear from anyone that has any strong views about Saxo versus IB?
HNY, Raj
Dear Raj,
Here are the answers to your questions:
£85K from 2017 onwards
We remain at your service.
Yours Sincerely,
Tatsiana Shtykava Rostved I Account Services
Saxo Bank A/S (Denmark) – United Kingdom – Singapore – Hong Kong – Australia – South Africa – Turkey
Mark Rose
Hi Raj,
I think both Saxo and IB are good, well established brokers.
If I remember correctly, Saxo minimum account is £60k where IB is £10k, which might be the defining difference for many investors.
Regards,
Mark
Ron
Thanks for responding, Mark. I have a few things to clear up before I can put the appropriate amount of money into this but I think it’s now when not whether.
Mark N
Good morning Mark,
All booked on the course next week in Sheffield, can’t wait 🙂
Thanks for arranging for Paul and Glynn to contact me.
Kind regards Mark N.
Brian
Hi Mark,
What platforms would you recommend for DMA and separately for Spreadbetting? Looking to set up accounts today and there are so many players that it’s easier to get a recommendation.
Regards,
Brian
Mark Rose
Hi Brian,
IG and IB (Interactive Brokers).
Regards,
Mark
Ron
I’m getting close to signing up for this but a question just occurred. Please excuse if it’s daft. After the course will we be guided (by emails or alerts) to activate trades? Or is it that having been shown the method we have to find our own trades?
Mark Rose
Hi Ron,
No a daft question at all.
When you leave you will have a strategy that you can apply straight away, with standard settings.
Having spoken to many PIE members, in the main we are still following the standard setting given, but some members are being slightly more cautious and others slightly more aggressive.
Glynn is always happy to speak to you on the phone if you have any questions after the course and I’m hoping the new members forum will soon be set up, which should also be a help.
The results I post each month are always for the strategy as taught to me, I do also place some additional trades -if the returns look particularly good, but I don’t post these as it is over and above what I have been taught.
Next course is in London on Feb 15th.
Kind regards,
Mark Rose
Vic
I most certainly will thanks Mark
Vic
Pleased to say I’ve taken the plunge and enrolled for the January course 🙂 Looking forward to becoming an active member here…… although from what I see there is no need to be too active 🙂
Cheers Vic
Mark Rose
Hi Vic,
That’s great news, i’m sure you will enjoy it and I’d really appreciate it if you could post your thoughts on the course once you’ve attend?
Kind regards,
Mark Rose
Nick Armstrong
Hi Mark,
Please can I become part of the members site. I have attended the course (twice………….its that good) And so simple you will never need to attend twice but I had a few health issues after the course and couldn’t trade for nearly two years and asked Paul and Glynn if I could attend a refresher to get my confidence back. The system is the most laid back strategy you could imagine. This will fund my retirement without any question!
Regards,
Nick
Mark Rose
Hi Nick,
Yes that would be great. Any PIE attendees/home study course members will be able to join the members forum.
Kind regards,
Mark Rose
Mark Rose
Just realised I didn’t post my Dec Dax PIE trade result on Friday.
Based on a trading pot of £5200 for a £10 stake my November DAX PIE trade returned 1.88% (£98).
I also took two other Dax trades as the prices on offer improved. I tend to leave some margin available so that if the returns improve significantly, I am able to take advantage of them. This gives you either better returns on similar positions, or you can take safer trades but maintain the same % return.
I did both. One returned 3.11% (£162) and the other 6.71% (£349).
Something we can discuss in more detail once the members page is set up.
Regards,
Mark
David Hudson
FTSE closed out for a profit (it survived the Trump victory ok). My return on original capital is now 56.4%.
David
Mark Rose
Hi David,
I’m impressed with a 2.3% (is this right, I deducted your Nov total in a comment above from your Dec total) return on the FTSE. This is much better than I did!
Regards,
Mark
Brian
Hi all,
I have just paid for PIE but will be doing the course myself with the manuals as I’m not living in the UK at the moment.
As I am a complete novice to trading (but have been following PIE with great anticipation for several years) the possibility of a members Forum would be amazing. From reading here it looks like a runner but has it been set up yet? If so, how does one prove their eligibility to join it?
Regards,
Mark Rose
Hi Brian,
My plan is to use the Xmas break to get this set up (as long as I have the IT support).
When a new members asks to join, I will check with Paul/Glynn that they have attended/bought the home study course.
Kind regards,
Mark Rose
Paul
Raj,
I’m surprised that Saxo say that ‘each account is protected up to Euro 100K’. Not saying I don’t believe you but I thought the FCA provided for £50K protection per person for investments.
Have I got this wrong or is it that SAXO are going over and above the provisions set out by the FCA?
Thanks to you and anybody else who can shed more light on this.
regards,
Raj Bhatia
Hi Mark and all
Great news on the Forum – thanks.
I am now managing family funds through Saxo at a very conservative level, as per the rules, and have no
concerns that the Strategy provides a fail-safe method to avoid losses (I tested it repeatedly both in demo
and live accounts)
My only ‘worry’ is the same issue of Saxo going into liquidation. (this has happened to me before with another Broker…I received 100% of my funds back, albeit some months later.)
Saxo tell me that each account is protected up to Euros 100K…so I keep my balance below this.
Regards, Raj
Mark
Hi Mark and all,
Both FTSE & Dax Dec trades closed out successfully today for a combined profit of 2.3%
Regards
Mark
Mark Rose
My Dec FTSE PIE trade has just closed for a profit, albeit a pretty paltry one!
Personally I only traded this with a small stake, just to have a proper track record.
Instead I increased my stake on the Dec Dax option, as the returns on offer were better.
Dax trade closes at midday and it looking like it will be another winner.
Based on a trading pot of £5200 for a £10 stake my December FTSE PIE trade returned 0.50% (£26).
Regards,
Mark
Vic
Hi Mark
Thanks for you reply. The reason I brought up the possibility of brokers going bust is I’ve seen PIE traders referring to 6 figure accounts, and whist some of that would be recoverable in the event of a broker going bust, anything over £50,000 wouldn’t be. What I don’t know is if you need to hold the whole trading account with a brokerage or if those trading large accounts can do so without having to keep in excess of £50,000 in the acct.
Anyway, that said I can manage my account keeping my own risk parameters in place once I know what the strategy requirements are. I can see from other sites that a new training session is being set up in January, but I would prefer to be connected to PIE through yourself rather than any of the other sites. If there is any commission then I’d prefer it went to you as I feel your site is the most honest & up front. others sadly just seem to want to earn a commission by peddling anything & everything. I will call Paul/Glynn, before doing so perhaps you could let me know if I just need to mention you or if I need to be “introduced” by you. Cheers Vic
Mark Rose
Hi Vic,
If you are trading Direct market access then you would need the funds in the account, unless you are able to set up a credit account with IB/Saxo? (I don’t trade DMA so am not sure if this is possible).
If you are spread betting then you can trade on margin and only top up if necessary. Be warned that you might need to top up quickly, or suffer having your trades manually closed by the broker. So be sure you can transfer decent sized chunk quickly if required.
Thanks for the comments on my review, it is much appreciated. If you let Paul or Glynn know you have come via us, then that would be great too.
Kind regards,
Mark
Paul Pennington
Hi fellow PIE munchers,
I also would love to trade PIE via my SIPP rather than holiding income shares paying 4% dividends etc.
Legally it can be done thanks to changes introduced by George Osborne, but it depends if brokers want to or not and I suspect they no longer want to for some reason – too much hassle to setup for a limited appeal?
I have spoken to both IB and Saxo who have both said they don’t offer that facility and interestingly IB said they have never have offered the facility either, which I know not be true. When I pressed IB further in this matter I was told it was impossible.
Having chatted to a couple of people on the other site,who ARE trading PIE in their SIPPs and both via IB, I know it is possible. They both tell similar stories of having to constantly harass by email and phone some very senior people at IB until the matter was resolved.
One of them went to see a director at IB in London and threatened to bring in the financial services ombudsman and the pension one as well. The other person tells a similar tale only he complained to the head office in America and the MD in the U.K. was tasked with making it happen. It obviously did the trick in both cases. But I don’t think I have the patience or resolve for all that.
Interestingly one of them is making pension contributions to his SIPP as well and he sent me a screenshot of his SIPP with a note from IB confirming that a pension tax credit has been applied to his account!
Frustrating, love to hear if anyone is running PIE in their SIPP via any other broker.
Regards
Paul
Mark Rose
Hi Paul,
Thanks for your comment.
I’m very interested in trading options from within my SIPP, not just the PIE strategy, but also to generate an additional income from shares that I already own and/or shares that I would be happy to own.
I’d be very interested to know which approved SIPP administrator they had used? I’ve been through the list of Saxo and IB approved SIPP administrators and so far none are allowing me to trade options within their SIPP.
If it’s a matter of chasing the MD’s then I’m happy to do it.
Thanks
Mark
Paul Pennington
Hi Mark,
I’ve passed your details on to both of them who have actually been very helpful and confirmed that they are running their SIPPs via @SIPP in Glasgow and with IB.
The problem stems from IB not having their systems setup to allow a SIPP account to trade in only those products they are allowed to and not things like CFDs, Metals etc. and it appears that the UK Managaing Director of IB had to get a programming team to make system changes so that anyone with a SIPP would be restricted in what they can trade in. This I believe took a few month and a lot of toing and frowing until it was finally resolved.
I emailed the people involved at IB and got either out of office replies or no reply
@SIPP haven’t been too helpful either (“we’re just the SIPP administrator required by law” kind of thing) and seemed reluctant to get involved, but I do know it was someone at @SIPP called Kyle who was also tasked with liaising directly with IB to get the matter resolved and probably prevent one or both of the PIE munchers making formal complaints to the Ombudsman. I did have another contact but their email bounced right back so I guess they’ve moved on.
You would have thought that both brokers and SIPP providers would be only too keen to get this extra potential business, but it appears not. I know both have been running their SIPPs this way for 2 1/2 years now and doing very nicely with it as you would expect
Budget changes introduced by George Osborne which came into effect in April 2014 which brought about big pension changes, like allowing people to cash in their funds at 55 and buy a Ferrari type of thing and not be forced to buy an annuity. It also allowed people greater freedom in what they could trade within the pensions and allowed them to buy property and of course trade options.
I hope there is a positive outcome to all this, the sooner the better ideally, I’m in my late 40s, my pension fund has grown a miserly 4.2% this year and I know I could easily quadruple that if I was allowed to manage my own funds.
I’ve email you separately with tith details of the IB and @SIPP contact details.
Interestingly I hear that Saxo maybe about to offer what we want, but it won’t be until next summer
Regards,
Paul
Mark
Hi Mark and all,
Well that’s a very welcome surprise (re the Forum), I was only coming on to update you on my Nov results!
Thanks to all who have contributed, and to you Mark for your continued persistence, an early xmas present indeed 🙂
Ok my Nov Results were as follows…….
Usual 2 trades closed out for a combined 3.8% profit, despite the minor earthquake caused by Mr Trump.
I have to admit, it was scary and kept me up all night through the election, but when the dust settled and the trades where analysed the reality of my discomfort was caused by my trade size and not the trade set up which was never challenged. (note to self, if you are uncomfortable trade more conservatively!!)
Dec trades if successful will reflect the above and come in at a combined 2.3%
Regards
Mark
andy
My FTSE position closed today for a profit of 3% based on a £5200 pot. I aim for approx 2% per trade with fairly low risk positions and am happy with that.
Andy
Mark Rose
Both my FTSE and Dax trades have closed for profits.
The return were lower than I’ve been used to due to the lack of volatility when I placed the trades,
Based on a trading pot of £5200 for a £10 stake my November FTSE PIE trade returned 1.11% (£58).
Based on a trading pot of £5200 for a £10 stake my November DAX PIE trade returned 1.25% (£73).
Regards,
Mark
David Hudson
My Nov FTSE just closed for another profit.I have 3 open positions all FTSE (1 Dec. & 2 Jan.)
My return since first starting with PIE(Jul. 2014) is a 54.1% return on my start capital.
David
Vic
Hi Mark & others, I have pondered for some time about attending a PIE course but as yet have not done so. The ability to talk openly with others in a private forum whist not being the deciding deal maker would certainly be an encouragement to me.
I am fully aware that nobody can go into detail on strategy, but nothing can be entirely risk free and I do wonder what the worst case situation might be. It might for instance be a broker going bust (it does happen) I know that the FCA have rules about segregated funds, but I can also give you at least one example where an FCA regulated broker actually didn’t have segregated funds and did go bust. In that case the FCA does have a compensation scheme, but it does take time to work through and it does have an upper limit on the level of compensation. If that is a risk, but is the only risk, then the risk is easy to quantify. I have also read Marks frank & open report on the horlicks of a situation he got himself into – but note that if the rules had been followed to the letter and the risk level better managed, that situation would not have arisen. £3k is a chunk of cash but of much greater concern to me is that to make using the strategy worthwhile there could be a much greater chunk of cash at risk. I’d really like to be able to establish what the “real” risks are before committing £3k to the course.
Cheers Vic
Mark Rose
Hi Vic,
I think the risk of a broker going bust is the same regardless of the strategy you are trading, so not a specific risk to the PIE strategy itself.
PIE is not a risk free strategy and as you could see from my report if you over stretch the risk and the market move significantly against you, you could find yourself with some large unrealised losses to manage.
I’ve only had to manage my trades twice since I started trading PIE. The 1st occasion was very straightforward, the second was a little more fraught.
You can control the level of risk you are exposed to by being sensible about the size of the positions you take on relative to your bank and taking low risk positions that are very unlikely to be challenged in the first place.
Kind regards,
Mark Rose
Bill
Hi Vic,
Like you i was wary of committing £3K to a course of this nature,it is all well and good reading rave reviews but the niggling doubt remained.There had to be an element of risk nothing is bomb proof!
But i took on board Marks honest report and bit the bullet and attended this weeks session,obviously i cannot go into details but every thing stated is the truth, just stick to the rules and your money is safe you are shown a clever way to protect your account, i would recommend this to any cautious investor and no i am not getting anything for this i am trying to assist some one like my self.
Best Regards
Bill
Paul
Hi Mark (and others championing the private PIE forum cause),
That is fantastic news!!!
Thank you and well done for persevering.
Looking forward to engaging with other like minded members of this community…waiting in great anticipation.
Mark Rose
Ok, good news.
I’ve had the green light from Gylnn and Paul to set up the private PIE forum.
I’m looking into the best way for me to do this at the minute as it is slightly different technology to what we do on these open posts, but am talking to our IT people and will let you know when we are ready.
Regards,
Mark
Nick Armstrong
Great news. Im in 🙂
Rupen Shah
That is good to know Mark. How will you let us know?
Mark Rose
Hi Rupen,
I’ll email out to everybody I know who has signed up, plus mention it in Traders Bulletin.
Should all be set up early next year.
Regards,
Mark
Pierre
Great news, thanks Mark, look forward to it!
Cheers
Pierre
Tony
That’s brilliant news Mark.
Thanks for trying again – can’t wait for it to start.
Tony
Mark Rose
Hi All,
I’ll speak to Paul and Glynn again.
Regards,
Mark
Pierre
Thank you Mark,
I forgot to say above that I have always appreciated your honest and open evaluation of this product over the last couple of years.
Tony
Hi Pierre,
An excellent assessment of the forum question, if I may say so.
Yesterday Paul raised a very reasonable concern about the Nov/Dec trades in the light of the US election, but of course could not be specific about levels etc, and Mark could equally only response with a “it depends” type of answer – basically a non-answer to a non-question to which no-body is any the wiser! A PERFECT example of why a private forum would so useful to so many of us.
Mark has been good enough to offer the wherewithal and expertise for a private forum, and all Paul and Glynn would have to do is provide, and maintain, him with a list of subscribers, but apparently that would be too difficult, too much of a security risk. It beggers belief that Paul and Glynn are being so strangely and frustratingly unhelpful. As I said in my post of 21st Oct:
Paul and Glynn would have absolute control over who you would allow into the forum, so it would
consist entirely of fully paid up members chatting amongest themselves. Where exactly is the security risk in that?
I believe PIE to be an outstandingly good strategy, but is not a rigid mechanical system – it needs occasional re-assessment and the more input from other users the better.
I think your suggestion of setting up a forum on Facebook is reasonable and, indeed, inevitable. An obvious solution to a reasonable and popular demand. There was a private forum set up on the Trade2Win site a few years ago for the NetTrap system, and it was a great success (the forum, not the NetTrap system unfortunately!). Whilst it was running the forum was an absolute joy – no trolls or rudeness, just a bunch of like-minded people helping each other, and being helped. It eventually ran out of steam and ground to a halt when the NetTrap system proved to be fundamentally flawed. I think the security was achieved by the use of a password which was something like, for example, the third word on the second line of page 22 of the manual. Obviously it depended on all the manuals being exactly the same, and I do not know if the T2W private forum facility is still available.
Mark: In the light of Pierre’s post, I think you would agree that a private forum will very likely happen, if not on here on TB, then elsewhere such Facebook. Regarding security, I’m sure no-one who has paid £3K for a system wants people who are not paid-up members to benefit from it, but conversely they also want to get the maximum benefit of the system themselves, so they want a private forum. Almost certainly whoever sets up a forum will be careful to maintain security, but obviously it will not be as 100% tight as it could be under the TB umbrella. So if you’re still happy to start a private forum on TB, will you please ask Paul and Glynn to re-consider, and give you the go-ahead for one.
Many thanks
Tony
If the manual is used to allow access, (password or screenshot) security could be compromised by anyone buying the manual on ebay, for instance. I don’t suppose anyone likes the idea of
Pierre
Hi,
Regarding a PIE private members forum.
OK, this is all off the top-of-my-head after just reviewing all of the comments above so please be constructive with your responses, I’m just trying to help!
I agree with the other posts on here that many owners of the system would benefit from sharing their experiences with each other and find it equally frustrating.
While I totally understand that Paul and Glynn want to protect their intellectual property it is equally unfair to dismiss out-of-hand a reasonable request from their customer base for some kind of shared support forum with clear safeguards to ensure that only individuals who have taken the course are permitted to join.
They are in the only position to make sure (100%) that this level of secure access is maintained as they have all of the customer details to authenticate members – but as Mark Rose has reported above they have no interest in doing this.
As others have experienced, there is zero engagement with the customer-base regarding the product, I’ve used it for nearly two years and other than the pre-sales emails have received nothing. Like others here I did not know about the increase spread betting margin requirements until it was mentioned by Mark.
This is a long-winded way of suggesting that we should go ahead and create a private forum/facebook group anyway.
This is no different from going to the pub after the course and chatting about it there – I’m sure that Paul and Glynn would not have objected to this 🙂
A private facebook page is probably the easiest thing to do and also people tend to be “real people” on there rather than just making up a fake name for a forum.
I’d also be interested in ideas for authenticating users “as best we can” given we don’t have access to a customer database. (e.g. scanned page from manual, copy of receipt etc???)
As for the NDA that we all signed, that applies to the course and the materials. It does not prevent us from discussing traded options and how we use them – we can do this anywhere and making the effort to restrict access is a courtesy to Paul and Glynn.
Ideally we’d have a PIE endorsed/created and moderated forum with Paul, Glynn and others actively involved but given that they have no interest this is probably the next best thing.
Anyway, provided that Mark allows this post, please let me know your thoughts.
Cheers
Pierre
andy
well said that man! All perfectly sensible remarks/suggestions
This would be of interest to me and many more i’m sure.
I don’t do “facebook” but probably would for this
Paul
Just wish to record my disappointment at not being able to progress a secured page (or two) on this site for PIE. I think numerous people have argued the case for it so will not repeat all the arguments made.
On a different note, a little concerned about Nov / Dec with the US elections, positions looking a little dicey and wondered if folks are going to adjust or sit it out?
Mark Rose
Hi Paul,
It depending on how far away you are but i’m not too worried about Nov. Expiry date is on the 18th, so it’s only 2 weeks. That said, if you have a chance to get out with a profit before the election there is nothing wrong with that.
One of the problems with spread betting PIE is to avoid paying the spread on the exit, you need to wait until the trade expires, coming out early proves expensive.
For Dec I have actually been taking some extra Dax positions over the last couple of days.
Let me qualify that a little, I didn’t go in at my usual stake on my initial Dec Dax trade as the returns on offer were smaller than i would normally want and I had an idea that we might see some volatility that would give me a better chance to get in with either better returns, or similar returns but safer positions.
Regards,
Mark
Trevor
I would agree that it is disappointing that Glynn and Paul decline the opportunity to keep PIE traders informed by operating a private forum, or even via email updates.
For example, in my own case, I only found out about the recommendation to increase the margin requirement because I emailed Glynn and Paul with an unrelated query, but they mentioned it in their reply.
So I am concerned that if further tweaks to the system are made, that the vast majority of PIE traders like me, who paid (lets face it) a not inconsiderable sum for the PIE system, will remain oblivious.
Don’t get me wrong, I think it is a great system which I have been trading for about 7 months now and making around 1.5% a month (direct market access with IB, and only the FTSE – for a relatively stress free life, even through Brexit result).
Thanks to Mark Rose for having a forum where we can air these matters.
Regards
Trevor
Mark Rose
Hi Trevor,
One positive is I believe Glynn has put (or is putting) a system in place to be able to contact the members if there are any amendments made to the strategy,
This should mean we will all be kept informed if there are any tweaks to the system.
Kind regards,
Mark
andy
I have to agree with Mark, Trevor & and others who are disappointed in not having a private forum.
Another, probably greater concern is, like Trevor, i only found out about the margin increase by accident ( thru this site – thanks Mark )
Glynn/Paul will have contact records so they could have emailed out any tweaks or updates when needed, great that they are going to now.
Ftse October position closed for 1.8% spread betting with IG
Andy
Mark
Hi Mark and all,
Firstly, disappointed (and I have to say I don’t fully understand their reasons for declining) that Glynn and Paul haven’t agreed to some kind of Secure and Regulated Forum, but appreciate your efforts in trying once again.
My Oct returns was a combined 3.57% on two trades.
Due to the forthcoming US election, I have initially opened my FTSE & Dax Dec trades at reduced stakes, and post election if possible, I will add to the trades to my normal monthly amount.
Regards
Mark
Mark Rose
My DAX trade has followed suit, closing at midday a winner.
Based on a trading pot of £5200 for a £10 stake my October DAX PIE trade returned 2.98% (£155).
I will be looking to get in again early next week.
Kind regards,
Mark Rose
David
Having had a self imposed break from PIE since before Brexit I am now up and running again.
My 2 October positions have now matured and successfully at that.( They were 1 FTSE position and 1 DAX position)
My account now shows a 52% return on my original capital.
I have 2 open positions a FTSE to close Nov and a FTSE to close in Dec.
Not a thing has changed since I started PIE 2 years ago which only goes to show the robustness of the system.
Mark Rose
Hi David,
Thanks for keeping us updated.
I presume that’s 52% return since you started trading PIE approximately 2 years ago?
Heading for a 100% return in less than 4 years, now that’s much better than you’ll get in the bank!
Regards,
Mark
Mark Rose
My October 16 FTSE PIE trade has now closed for a profit.
FTSE options expire at 10am, Dax at midday.
Based on £5200 pot and staking £10 per point my return equates to 0.81% (£42) return.
This is a pretty low return (It would have been 1.2% is we were still using the £3500 pot size) and in truth I only placed a small bet on the FTSE so as to have an accurate track record and placed more on the DAX trade as this offered a much better return.
If you too have been in October positions, then it would be great to know how you have got on.
Kind regards,
Mark
Mark Rose
Options expiry day today. Baring a disaster, I will close two more profitable PIE trades.
Regards,
Mark
Russell
Hi, I went on the PIE course in April 2016. I made some Direct Market small investments for June & July and cashed in early when they had made 75%, mainly because of the Brexit vote. Post Brexit i made a larger investment for August and then for September. I let the Aug & Sept investments run to expiry with no issues.
I have invested for Oct, Nov and will invest again for Dec. When the Oct investment expires on Friday I will have made the cost of the course back. For Sept I made 1.92% on my balance and am on course for a similar return in Oct.
I have been quite cautious with my level of market entry and am now running a Direct Market account for my daughter, being even more cautious but still aiming for 1% per month.
Mark Rose
Hi Russell,
Thanks for letting us know and well done on your results and taking what looks like a very sensible approach.
PIE is definitely a long term strategy and I suspect you daughter is going to be very grateful to you!
Regards,
Mark
Tony
Hi Mark,
Any updates on progress for a forum? It’s over three weeks since you spoke to Paul about it, and expiry is on Friday so it would be really nice to get something going on this.
Many thanks
Tony
Mark Rose
Hi Tony,
I’m afraid this is a no go as Paul and Glynn are concerned about information leaking out.
As you know they are more than happy to speak to members about an issues or suggestions on a one to one basis (and spend quite a lot of time doing this), but don’t want to set up a members forum.
Sorry about that, I really did try and push it as a positive, but ultimately it is their decision to make.
Regards,
Mark
Tony
Hi Mark,
OK, well thanks for trying, but I have to say I’m very disappointed that the forum is a non-starter. I am utterly mystified as to exactly why or how information would leak out of a private forum.
Paul and Glynn would have absolute control over who you would allow into the forum, so it would consist exclusively of fully paid-up PIE members chatting amongest themselves. Where exactly is the security risk in that?
If anyone wants to leak PIE information they can do it easily enough without a private forum.
Thanks anyway
Tony
Mark Rose
Hi,
I had a chat with Paul over the weekend and i know they are giving the idea some serious thought.
I’m happy to do it, or if they do decide to go down this route, they may prefer to run the site themselves as this would give them more control.
Regards,
Mark
Mark
Hi again Mark,
Re: Private Members Forum
In addition to Tony’s comments, and perhaps your concern how a Private Forum might impinge on yours and Paul & Glynn’s future business?
I for one would be more than happy to keep posting monthly return figures on this thread if/after the Private Forum was started.
Hope that helps?
Mark
Mark Rose
Hi Mark,
Thanks for that, it is appreciated.
Kind regards,
Mark
Tony
Hi Mark,
Thank you for re-considering about starting a private PIE forum, I’m glad other people have expressed a wish for it as well. (Not only on here at TB, but when I emailed Paul Bent about it earlier on in the year he said that it was a frequent request).
If I might make a couple of observations about possible concerns:
1. Breach of confidentiality. I can well understand Paul and Glynn being protective of their strategy, but really cannot see why a forum consisting exclusively of bona fida PIE subscribers would pose a risk of information being leaked out. On the contrary, if members did have a secure venue for exchanging strategies, seeking/offering advice etc, there would be far less chance of indiscreet information being leaked out via the multitude of other public venues such as More Money Review, Trade2Win, ForexFactory, PeaceArmy etc. (Incidentally, on T2Win they talk openly of buying/selling the PIE Manuals, so bang goes confidentiality there!)
2. Your concern of fewer comments on this open page. If a private forum did result in fewer comments, by which I assume you mean mainly the % returns, on this open page, would it not be possible for the relevant non-confidential data to be collated from the private forum and posted here on, say, a monthly basis?
I really think a private forum could have a positive impact on members trading, which would be reflected in their % returns which in turn would encourage more non-members to join PIE, which is surely Paul and Glynn want anyway!
Many thanks
Tony
Nick Armstrong
Awesome idea
Steve Morris
HI Mark / everyone
Firstly may I say that the idea of a secure forum for PIE course “graduates” would be very welcome as it will be difficult / impossible to discuss various strategies in a public forum.
I’ve been successfully trading the PIE method since February this year and am happy to share my results to date. Percentages are based on £3500 per £10 stake (I note that there is now a recommendation to increase this to £5200)
Expiry Month Monthly Return Total Return Comment
February 2016 +1.3% +1.3% FTSE Only
March 2016 +1.8% +3.2% FTSE Only
April 2016 +2.2% +5.5% FTSE Only
May 2016 +1.7% +7.2% FTSE Only
June 2016 +1.9% +9.3% FTSE Only
July 2016 -0.1% +9.2% Closed position early (Brexit nervousness)
August 2016 +1.9% +11.3% FTSE and DAX blend
September 2016 +2.5% +14.1% FTSE and DAX blend
October 2016 +2.1% +16.5% FTSE and DAX blend (Position still open)
November 2016 +2.4% +19.3% FTSE and DAX blend (Position still open)
As can been seen above, PIE has been consistent and (to date) low risk., I have been extremely risk averse in my choice of positions – none of my monthly positions have been remotely challenged and over 12 months should be looking at 25% or so compounded return.. Would have been slightly more had I not “wimped out” during the Brexit silliness! Compare this to the < 1% in the bank
I shall continue to be risk averse with my position as I am aware that there could be a major market movement at any time. This is when the strategy and my trading acumen (and nerve) will be tested to the full.
At present I am extremely excited with the PIE strategy as a long term income generator and will contine to use it and to grow it conservatively
Mark Rose
Thanks Steve.
I think wimping out during Brexit was no bad thing. The spreads and increased margin requirements at the time would have made hedging positions more expensive and more tricky than normal.
I kept smaller than normal trades open, in the main so I would be able to report how they fared here. so i guess you can say I wimped out too!
Kind regards,
Mark
Mark Rose
Hi All,
I’m happy to have a secure PIE page on the Traders Bulletin site, but I’d need the ok from Paul/Glynn to do it.
As you know they are very protective of the strategy and so I think they are worried that the information discussed could leak out.
Glynn and I were talking about the spread betting bank and he chose to increase this at the tail end of August. I’m not sure what processes they have in place for advising all the existing members about this though?
I’ll drop Glynn an email about it.
Kind regards,
Mark
Mark
P.S to Andy, I haven’t heard anything official from Glynn & Paul re the increased bank either.
Regards
Mark
Mark
Hi Mark,
Re Tony’s suggestion, I concur, a PIE private forum to discuss aspects of PIE trading that we are limited to talk about here, would be extremely useful. especially in times of the inevitable “Black Swan ” events,
Regards
Mark
andy
Hi, August gave me 1.9% return on the FTSE, i was quite conservative what with brexit going on, but seems to be in line with others returns. i don’t trade the DAX yet but plan to in the near future.
@Tony i agree a private forum would be good as it would be very easy for someone to post sensitive info on a public forum
Mark, i note in one of your posts above that Glynn & Paul are now recommending a larger bank of £5200 for spread betting at £10 per point, did they advise their clients i wonder as iv’e not heard any updates from them ?
Mark Rose
Hi Andy,
Good points and I’ve emailed Glynn and Paul on both counts.
Regarding trading the Dax, the recommendation here is to use a bigger % to the strike price, than you do on the FTSE as this is a more volatile market.
One advantage of spread betting the Dax is we are trading a Euro based instrument in pounds, this magnifies our returns (and of course our risk) and is one of the reasons (along with the increased volatility) that I normally get better returns from trading the Dax.
Kind regards,
Mark Rose
Tony
Hi Mark,
This is in reply to your email requesting peoples’ monthly results and progress with PIE.
I do have a problem with your request though: bearing in mind the requirement for maintaining confidentiality of the PIE strategy, how much information about our trades is it acceptable to post? If we are restricted to merely giving profit or loss percentages points per month, with no reasoning behind the figures, I think that would be of limited interest or benefit to people, whether they are PIE members or not. If however we could post the details of our trades – entry dates and levels, expiry dates and strike prices etc , and reasons for taking such trades- I think that would be of far greater use.
This brings me back to my post of 24th April this year, when I broached the possibility of you setting up a private forum within Traders Bulletin, for PIE members only. At the time you said you would look into it, but we have heard nothing since. So I ask you again, Mark, will you set up a private area where PIE subscribers can discuss freely all aspects of the PIE strategy?
Many thanks
Tony
Mark Rose
Hi Tony,
I take your point. All we can post here is % returns and a bit of a story about how your trades have gone. How many times have you had to hedge your trades and what you think of PIE in general.
I’ve no doubt that for people who are thinking about giving PIE a go, this will be very useful, but appreciate it might have less value for you as a poster.
I’ve emailed Glynn about the idea of a secure forum (all though this would probably mean there would be even fewer comments on this open page) and also on if there is a process in place for advising you if they amend the strategy at all.
Regards,
Mark
Raj Bhatia
Hello Mark/John
Just to say that I have been with Saxo for 6 months: opening the account was straightforward and it is easier if you state that you are happy with various Instruments, including selling options. I am new to Option trading, but consider that I have been on a ‘professional’ course – so be confident and tick the appropriate boxes!
I started with £40k (using only £20k of course for positions) and as I get used to it, I think this will generate
a steady 2/3% p.m…and to ease all your free-time problem – do a compounding exercise and you will see that this is a very significant addition/mainstay of your future wealth…of which, ‘doing nothing’ is extremely valuable :))
For info, I have just withdrawn 50% of the funds for a short-term family problem and Saxo have not had a problem with that.
I am also using IG and will report back.
Regards to all,
Raj
Mark Rose
Thanks Raj.
As it’s now been over 12 months since I’ve had a trade challenge, I take it you’ve not had any issues with having to hedge any of your trades yet?
For Direct Market Access (and this is a very unscientific straw poll) 1% or 2% seems to be about the average return members are looking for.
Spread betting is probably a little higher at 3% or 4% although this may come down a bit now that the recommended bank to spread bet has been increased.
Kind regards,
Mark
Mark
Hi Mark,
A brief….ish update for you.
After attending the June Course, I decided to go down the spread betting route because of Tax reasons and familiarity with the platform, although I did open Direct Broker accounts with I.B & Saxo (no easy task) and I can certainly see advantages trading direct, (better prices and ease of covering challenged positions) so perhaps I will in time migrate over, but for now I need to keep it simple stupid!
I funded my Spread betting account as soon as I was comfortable, and opened FTSE & Dax Aug & Sept trades.
I have decided initially to tread very carefully and be very conservative, so I am quite comfortable with not matching your results.
Despite a little Brexit wobble, (positions never in trouble, but interesting) my closed positions are as follows.
FTSE Aug = +2%
Dax Aug = +1.08%
Combined monthly profit = +3.08%
FTSE Sept = +2.25%
Dax Sept = +0.96%
Combined monthly profit = +3.21%
Early days yet of course, but both Oct and Nov contracts are all in the Black already, and if they are not challenged then they will expire at +3.57% combined for Oct, and 3.80% for Nov.
My intention is to not drawdown on the trading bank, if/when next April arrives with continued success? increase the bank substantially and just let it compound. (Excel compounding spreadsheet makes very interesting reading Mr. Einstein 🙂
After spending many years, and £’s, “Trading”, the only problem I am having is the stress it is causing waiting for the expiration date, (watching paint dry springs to mind) as opposed to the stress of trading the 5 and 15 min markets, perhaps I’m just a stress head and not cut out for this :-)
I obviously need to find something else to do after the 15 mins of the 3rd Friday of every month!
Hope that’s of some interest?
Regards
Mark
Mark Rose
Thanks Mark and I think you’ve taken a sensible approach.
I would be careful about increasing the bank substantially in one go. You open yourself up to much increased risk by doing this and may be better off drip feeding additional funds in.
The likelihood is drip feeding additional funds will result in a slower profit curve, but it is a much less risky approach (this applies to all trading/fund investments, not just PIE).
Kind regards,
Mark
Paul
Hi Mark,
ARe you always trading 1 month or do you vary?
Thx
Mark Rose
Hi Paul,
I place two trades each month. 1 on the FTSE and 1 on the DAX. Approx % distance to the strike price remains consistent.
Kind regards,
Mark
Mark Rose
DAX trade now also closed for a profit.
Based on £5200 (formally we used £4000) pot staking £10 per point on the DAX trade, this equates to a 4.08% (£212) return.
Kind regards,
Mark
Mark Rose
Today is options expiry date.
My FTSE trade has already closed for a profit and my DAX trade expires at 12 o’clock.
In general the % returns are now going to be a lower as Glynn has recently reviewed the bank required and decided to bring it more inline with Direct Market Access and in particular, this months return is lower compared to last month as the market was much less volatile when I came to open the trades.
Based on £5200 (formally we used £3500) pot staking £10 per point on the FTSE trade, this equates to a 1.75% (£91) return.
Kind regards,
Mark
Richard
Hi Mark
Do you know if it’s possible to ‘back test’ the PIE trading method.?
Thanks
Richard
Mark Rose
Hi Richard,
It would be possible to backtest to see if a trade would have won or lost, but I don’t think you would be able to backtest the strategy to get an idea of the % return.
By knowing the market open price on the on the day we open positions (for me this is normally the Monday after options expiry day) and knowing the market closing price on options expiry day, you could easily see if the trade would have won or lost, to do anything more than this you would need a lot of option strike price data, that isn’t readily available.
Regards,
Mark
John
Hi Mark,
Having paper traded the PIE strategies for a months I’m ready to go live. I want to spread bet to build account size then drip feed the direct access account. I’m trying to re-open an account I had with IB (they don’t make it easy!), so I’m thinking about Saxo. The thing is I understand that they won’t allow any selling of options unless you can prove quite a bit of experience. Would you by any chance know if this is correct?
I have an IG account for spread-betting. However, I notice that they only do daily, weekly or quarterly options. So if I wanted to do the 2-month DAX strategy, for example, I take it this wouldn’t be possible. Would I be correct in thinking that your spread bets revolve around 3-month contracts?
Any help would be much appreciated.
Mark Rose
Hi John,
I think Saxo have a minimum account six of £60k, so IB might be your best bet for an DMA account.
I’m afraid I don’t know their criteria for allowing you to trade, but do know they will base this decision on the info you give them.
IG is currently offering Sept, Oct, Nov, Dec and March strike prices, so you have plenty of options regarding how far forward you want to trade.
Regards,
Mark Rose
Mark Rose
I’ve been in conversation with Glynn this week about spread betting PIE and Glynn has decided to adjust the bank size he recommends you hold to trade the FTSE and Dax.
Until now the recommendation was £3500 on the FTSE and £4000 on the Dax.
Glynn has decided to increase these figures to bring them in line with the margin required to trade PIE by Direct Market Access.
The recommended pot to trade either the FTSE or the Dax using spread betting is now £5200 per instrument per open trade.
This will have the effect of pulling the % returns of the two methods in line with each other.
Advantage to spread betting is that you can trade from £2 a point (bank recommended for this is £1040) and your profits are tax free.
The minimum account size trading DMA is £10,000 and opening one position will tie up £5200 of the available funds.
From now on I will post my % performance figures based on the new bank of £5200. This will reduce the % gain, even though the trade result will be the same.
Regards,
Mark
Mark
Hi Mark,
Just to be clear then, would this mean to run 4 trades, FTSE/DAX over two contract periods a £20,800 bank at £10 per point is recommended?
Regards
Mark
Mark Rose
Yep, that’s spot on.
So if you take my trade results from last month, they would now be;
Based on £5200 pot staking £10 per point (this is the recommendation from Glynn) on the FTSE trade, this equates to a 5.61% return (rather than 8.34%).
Based on £5200 pot staking £10 per point (this is the recommendation from Glynn) on the DAX trade, this equates to a 7.60% return (rather than 9.87%).
Regards,
Mark
Mark
Cheers Mark, many thanks for the confirmation
Regards
Mark
Mark
Hi Mark,
Couple of Q’s?
Do you trade Direct or Spread?
And is there any reason that you wait a couple of days after expiration before you open up new trades?
Regards
Mark
Mark Rose
Hi Mark,
I spread bet PIE.
I tend to wait until early the next week to open new positions as it reduces the number of weekends I am holding the trade over.
This isn’t really a hard and fast rule though. If the prices available looked good on the Friday then it would be fine to take them.
Regards,
Mark
Mark
Morning Mark,
Thanks for the reply.
Interesting point about the weekends, I can see the logic in that.
Regards
Mark
Mark Rose
As expected my August DAX trade has closed for a profit.
Based on £4000 pot staking £10 per point (this is the recommendation from Glynn) on the DAX trade, this equates to a 9.87% return.
August trades have been particularly profitable due to the volatility. I will be looking to enter two new positions early next week.
Regards,
Mark
Mark Rose
August options expire today.
My FTSE trade had just closed for a very healthy profit The August trades were placed just after the EU referendum when volatility was high and better than normal returns where on offer.
Based on £3500 pot staking £10 per point (this is the recommendation from Glynn) on the FTSE trade, this equates to a 8.34% return.
Dax options expire at 12 o’clock, so I’ll report back on this later.
Regards,
Mark
Mark Rose
My PIE trades mature on Friday and both are looking very good. It’s now been over 12 months since I have had to hedge a trade and I’ve only ever had to hedge twice in the 32 months I have been trading PIE.
Regards,
Mark
Mark Rose
6% now bagged on my DAX July PIE trade, will be looking to open some new positions Mon/Tues next week.
Based on £4000 pot staking £10 per point (this is the recommendation from Glynn) on the DAX trade, this equates to a 6% return.
Find out more here:http://www.profitableinvestmenteducation.com/
Regards,
Mark
Mark Rose
6% now bagged on my DAX July PIE trade, will be looking to open some new positions Mon/Tues next week.
Based on £4000 pot staking £10 per point (this is the recommendation from Glynn) on the DAX trade, this equates to a 6% return.
Find out more here:http://www.profitableinvestmenteducation.com/
Regards,
Mark
Mark Rose
July FTSE PIE trade has closed for a nice profit.
Apart from the wide spreads and increased margin requirements around the EU referendum, the trade was never under threat, even though the markets were very volatile.
Because of the increased volatility, there was also a very nice opportunity to jump into some extra trades after the referendum, with very good returns on offer.
However, as doing this is not included as part of the strategy and is something you will learn how to do as your experience grows, I won’t add these trade results to my performance stats. My results are all based on trading the system as it was taught to me when I attended the course.
Based on £3500 pot staking £10 per point (this is the recommendation from Glynn) on the FTSE trade, this equates to a 4.28% return.
Regards,
Mark
Mark Rose
My FTSE and DAX PIE trades close on Friday and both look on course to add more profits to the bottom line.
Regards,
Mark
James
How did it go over the Brexit period?
Mark Rose
Hi James,
it’s been fine, or at least I didn’t need to roll any trades and now the dust has settled, my trades are all looking positive.
That said, on Friday the spreads for DAX options on IG went from 5 points to 30 points, which would have made closing trades very difficult if I had needed to do so.
I’m not sure if these sorts of spreads were reflected in the direct market? If anybody did hold DMA position over the referendum period, or saw what the spreads were like, i’d be very interested to know.
Regards,
Mark
Mark
Cheers Mark, received thank you
Mark
Mark
Hi Mark,
I attended the June 14th London Seminar, would be grateful to receive your PIE attendee “Spread Betting PIE ” report.
Regards
Mark
Mark Rose
Hi Mark,
No problem. I’ll email Paul to confirm and then send the report over by email.
Regards,
Mark
andy
Hi Mark,
same here, June trade closed for + 2.8%
July trade looking a bit hairy currently, have you got trades on for July?
Am going to leave opening a new trade till after the referendum i think
Regards Andy
Mark Rose
Hi Andy,
Yes i’m in July, although I did reduce my stake.
Trades are looking ok at the moment, but I’ve no doubt it will be a bit more of a rollacoaster due to the EU referendum.
Markets are and will be volatile and there’s no way of knowing what the market will do, especially with the polls so tight.
I will continue to place the trades at minimum stakes as normal, so as to have accurate results to report.
Regards,
Mark
andy
Hi Mark,
due to the gain on the FTSE yesterday (think that was the polls shifting back in favor of remain over the weekend) i decided to close my July trade at + 2.6 %.
Will wait till next week and see if i can get back in for a few more %
Regards Andy
Mark Rose
I think that’s a very sensible move.
I’m leaving my reduced stake trades open so that I can report on how the cope with the referendum.
Regards,
Mark
andy
Hi Mark, it will be interesting to see how you go with it over the ref and the outcome, do keep us posted
Regards Andy
Mark Rose
My June FTSE spread bet trade has also closed for a win.
Based on £3500 pot staking £10 per point (this is the recommendation from Glynn) on the FTSE trade, this equates to a 2.80% return.
Dax trades closes at 12 o’clock but is on course to also make 2.80%.
Regards,
Mark
P.S. For those of you who are spreadbetting PIE, be aware that brokers are increasing their margin requirements and possibly spreads from tonight, until after the EU referendum. Might be worth holding off placing new trades until after we’ve had the result.
Richard
He Mark, your most recent result from the DAX trade was…3.875%.
Was that per month or for the whole trade duration. Regards Richard.
Mark Rose
Hi Richard,
I’m closing 1 trade per instrument every month on the DAX and FTSE. 3.875% was the return I got for the whole duration on the DAX position I took that had a closing date May 20th.
Regards,
Mark
Mark Rose
As expected my May DAX trade has closed for a profit.
Based on £4000 pot staking £10 per point (this is the recommendation from Glynn) on the DAX trade, this equates to a 3.875% return.
Regards,
Mark
andy
Just closed May for + 1.5%.
Mark Rose
Hi Andy,
Good job, is this spread bet or direct market access?
My FTSE spread bet trade has also closed.
Based on £3500 pot staking £10 per point (this is the recommendation from Glynn) on the FTSE trade, this equates to a 2.49% return.
Dax trades closes at 12 o’clock but is on course to make 3.88%.
Happy days!
Mark
andy
Hi Mark,
i am spread betting, mainly for the tax reasons but also because it ties up less funds (as you know).
Not doing the Dax yet, want to get a couple of months on the Ftse under my belt before adding funds to trade the Dax
Regards Andy
Mark Rose
DAX is a little more volatile, but does offer higher returns. A lot of this is to do with the fact we are trading in pounds an instrument valued in euros.
Regards,
Mark
Tony
Hi Mark,
Regarding the PIE strategy, I think that the one thing that would enormously enhance many peoples’ use and understanding of it would be a private forum. Due to the understandable confidentiality agreement, the finer details of PIE cannot be properly discussed on this and other forums (fora?) and I, and possibly others, find this limiting and frustrating. Obviously a private forum would be strictly only for those that have bought PIE and they could then freely discuss specific details about PIE, personal entry levels, strategy variations, results, queries, broker/spreadbet company experiences and preferences etc.
Apart from the obvious benefits to PIE traders it would also probably benefit the PIE proprietors themselves by reducing the amount of queries they need to answer (possible the same or similar questions many times over) and also by reducing, or even eliminating, indiscreet comments on open forums that could compromise the confidentiality of PIE.
Unfortunately, due to time and expertise constraints, the proprietors have declined to open such a forum, which is fair enough I suppose, so I was wondering if you would consider starting one on Traders Bulletin. I was thinking that it would not take the place of this forum which is useful for those yet to buy into PIE, but to run in addition to this one, accessible only to PIE subscribers.
What do you think, would you be interested in giving it a go?
Thanks
Tony
Mark Rose
Hi Tony,
I’ve no problem to the principle of running a PIE members forum but it would need to be Glynn and Paul’s decision as it is there strategy and in truth would still require input from them.
I’ll drop them an email, but think Glynn is in Las Vegas at the moment.
Regards,
Mark
Tony
OK Mark, that’s great. I would hope that, if necessary, it could be run without Glynn and Paul’s input, as it could mainly be used for an exchange of views between PIE traders.
Many thanks
Tony
Mark Rose
Places filling up fast on the May London seminar, drop Paul or Glynn an email if you’re interested.
http://www.profitableinvestmenteducation.com/
Regards,
Mark
Jaki
Hi Mark
still not had a reply to my email I sent a week ago (Sun 10th April) with a request for your report on how to spread bet PIE, so trying to contact you via this comment page.
As I said in my email, I purchased the PIE strategy last year and have just started spread betting it.
Jaki
Paul
Hi Mark,
I too emailed you last week and again today requesting a copy.
Thank you.
Mark Rose
Hi Paul,
I don’t seen to have received the email from you, sorry about that.
I’ll organise for the PIE attendee “Spread Betting PIE ” report to be sent over to you. Can you let me know when you attended?
Thanks,
Mark
Mark Rose
Hi Jaki,
I sent the report over last week, apologies it didn’t arrive. I’ll send it again now
Regards,
Mark Rose
Mark Rose
Hi Andy,
Yes I’m with IG.
The option expires at 10am for the FTSE and 12 o’clock for the DAX, but it takes IG a little while to close out the positions, not sure why.
But as long as the DMA option prices closed successfully, then you know you have bagged a profit.
Based on £4000 pot staking £10 per point (this is the recommendation from Glynn) on the DAX trade, this equates to a 3.213% return.
Regards,
Mark
andy
Ah yes the times out!
Yes i logged out of IG then back in and the position was closed so i expect there may have been a glitch (or as it’s a demo, a bit slow to update !)
Nice result on the Dax
Regards Andy
andy
Hi Mark, is that with IG ?
I thought the options closed at 10.30 ?
My April trade (demo) is still going as 10.15
also at 2.7%
Regards Andy
Mark Rose
Hi Andy,
I’ve just realised whats happening here.
The times of the posts is showing 1 hour delayed.
I posted my first comment at 10.05am, just after the options expired, but it shows as being posted at 9.05am, which is 55mins before.
I’ll ask IT to change the clock to show the correct time.
Thanks
Mark
andy
Edit
just looked and now closed out for 3.4%
Andy
Mark Rose
Well done on 3.4% a very good monthly return.
Regards,
Mark
Mark Rose
April options expire today.
My FTSE trade had just closed for a profit.
Based on £3500 pot staking £10 per point (this is the recommendation from Glynn) on the FTSE trade, this equates to a 2.77% return.
Dax options expire at 12 o’clock, so I’ll report back on this later.
Regards,
Mark
Mark Rose
Quick reminder of the dates for the up coming PIE courses
Thursday 14th April in Sheffield
Thursday 19th May in London
Tuesday 14th June in Sheffield
And remember to mention Traders Bulletin when you sign up and I will send you my “How to Spread Bet PIE” report for free.
Kind regards,
Mark Rose
Mark Rose
My March trades have closed for good profits
Based on £4000 pot staking £10 per point (this is the recommendation from Glynn) on the DAX trade, this equates to a 6.25% return.
Based on £3500 pot staking £10 per point (this is the recommendation from Glynn) on the FTSE trade, this equates to a 5.83% return.
Regards,
Mark
Stephen Wright
Hi Mark
I a interested in PIE and trading via a SIPP.
The Interactive Broker website lists a small number of SIPP providers who will work with IB. Is it in fact correct that you cannot trade options within a SIPP?
regards
Steve
Mark Rose
Hi Steve,
I don’t think so, or at least that’s what I was told when I discussed it with Saxo.
The FCA has included options as one of the instruments you cannot include within a SIPP.
That said, it’s worth asking IB and/or contacting the list of SIPP providers they work with to check.
I for one would be very interested in they could.
Regards,
Mark
Paul
Hi Steve / Mark,
Did anything come out of this? Just wondering if you or anyone else was able to draw any conclusions w.r.t. SIPP via SAXO or IB?
Thanks,
Mark Rose
I don’t think you could trade PIE via a SIPP i’m afraid. You might be able to trade some option strategies within a SIPP, but not the way PIE trades them.
Regards,
Mark
Mark Rose
Below are the results for my Feb PIE positions.
These are slightly safer bets than I was originally taking, coupled with the lack of volatility at the time I placed them, means the returns are lower than I have been used to. I am now trading a bigger pot and so am taking a more cautious approach than when I was trading with fun money.
It’s fair to say that PIE is now my number 1 strategy and I am more heavily invested in this than any other strategy I use.
Volatility at the time of placing the trades makes a significant difference to the returns, the more volatile the market the higher the returns.
I am still following the PIE strategy as taught by Glenn, albeit with slightly safer trades than I used to, and these trade results are what I report here, however i am also now confident enough to take on extra trades if the volatility has spiked and the returns on offer are greatly improved, which I think is a great way to develop the strategy further.
Based on £4000 pot staking £10 per point (this is the recommendation from Glynn) on the DAX trade, this equates to a 3.05% return.
Based on £3500 pot staking £10 per point (this is the recommendation from Glynn) on the FTSE trade, this equates to a 1.88% return.
Regards,
Mark
Julian
Hi Mark,
Very interested in seeing the results of PIE spread betting as against direct access.
This has been a question i have wanted answered for a while, i am currently using PIE through direct access so if it makes sense to switch i will do if your results show in favour.
Mark Rose
Hi Julian,
There are pros and cons to both, so its a matter of finding which you are most comfortable with, or possibly splitting your fund and trading both approaches.
Spread Bet positives
Tax free
Smaller Pot
Bigger returns
Spread bet negatives
Wider Spreads
Rapid moves in margin in prices spikes
We have to wait longer to recoup loss, if we need to hedge
Smaller number of option contracts to trade
Direct Access Positives
Tighter Spreads
More available options contracts to trade
Margin much less affected by price spikes (although your margin in much greater in the first place).
You can recoup losses immediately when you hedge
Direct Access Negatives
Capital Gains Tax – You can no longer trader options in a SIPP to avoid this
Large margin requirements to hold positions initially
Large trading pot minimums required by brokers
Smaller returns
Kind regards,
Mark Rose
Mark Rose
I’ve now updated my PIE review to include my performance to the end of 2015 (including the tricky period in August/September). You can download the pdf by filling in your email address in the box at the top of the page.
I’m still using PIE as the backbone of my trading, so please read my warts and all review if you want to know the reality of trading this strategy.
Regards,
Mark Rose
Mark Rose
It’s amazing to watch the difference a bit of volatility makes to the returns on my PIE trades.
I’ve used the same method for my Feb and March trades, but because of the increased volatility the returns on my March trades are twice those of my Feb trades.
Of course both still have some time to go to expiry, but both are pretty comfortable at the moment and I will definitely be looking to get back in when we next see some increased volatility.
Regards,
Mark
Mark Rose
Below are the results for my Jan PIE positions.
I’ve pushed these out a bit to make them safer bets.
Based on £4000 pot staking £10 per point (this is the recommendation from Glynn) on the DAX trade, this equates to a 2.55% return.
Based on £3500 pot staking £10 per point (this is the recommendation from Glynn) on the FTSE trade, this equates to a 1.18% return.
Regards,
Mark
Mark Rose
Below are the results for my Dec PIE positions
Based on £4000 pot staking £10 per point (this is the recommendation from Glynn) on the DAX trade, this equates to a 5.22% return.
Based on £3500 pot staking £10 per point (this is the recommendation from Glynn) on the FTSE trade, this equates to a 2.01% return.
Regards,
Mark
Julian
Hi mark,
Still not heard back from you regarding trading pie with IG index ??
Mark Rose
yep sorry about that, i’ll email you.
Regards,
Mark
julian
Hi Mark,
I would appreciate it if you can get back to me regarding my post on the 11th December regarding PIE and IG index.
Regards
Julian.
Mark Rose
Hi Julian,
Really sorry not to have responded sooner.
I don’t think I am going to be able to give you much advice here without giving away too much detail on the strategy, so I’ll drop you an email to discuss.
Regards,
Mark
julian
Hi Mark,
I have been trading PIE through interactive brokers for about a year now, however I am now also looking to trade this through IG index, as you use IG for your PIE trades, please can you tell me if there is anything I need to be aware of regarding margin or anything else before I start to trade through this IG.
I had sent you two emails regarding this over the last couple of weeks but have had no reply, this is why I am contacting you through this forum.
hope to hear back from you with your thoughts soon.
Regards
Julian.
John T
Hi Mark – seasonal compliments. I’m in exactly the same position as Julian. What advice do you offer to someone like me (us) who is a spread betting novice anxious to get involved in what you say is more lucrative. Where do I go for information? Regards John
Mark Rose
Hi John,
Are you already trading PIE via direct market access(IB or Saxo) and now want to try spread betting the strategy, or are you new to both PIE and spread betting in general?
Regards
Mark
John T
Morning Mark – sorry for delay.
Been trading direct market through IB but now want to start using the spread betting version through IG
Mark Rose
Hi John,
It is possible to run positions with a much smaller pot because of the leverage, but if price moves against you your required level of margin can increase quickly (much more the direct market access), so you need to be sensible.
For example a £10 position only requires approx £300 in the account in margin, but Glynn recommends you have £3500/£4000 in your account to cover this.
I’ve tended to run my positions tighter than this, but am able to top up quickly if required and keep a very careful eye on the margin and movement in the DAX (apart from when I’m on holiday where I will overfund the account to avoid the mess I got into in September).
You will also pay more in spread, which can leave you sitting on positions that you might have chosen to close early on a direct market trade, that you end up sitting on to expiry as you don’t want to forfeit the spread.
This is the dog wagging the tail a bit, as the least amount of time you keep your trade open the less time you are exposed to risk, plus you could look at opening a new position and have your funds working harder for you.
One strong positive is we trade in £ on the DAX rather than euro positions as you do with direct market. This is the main reason why the returns on the DAX are so much better than on the FTSE. When spread betting we are trading a euro based instrument, but betting in £’s.
I only trade the FTSE with small stakes, just to keep a track of the performance so I can post the results here, the vast majority of my account is used trading the DAX options because of the better return these generate.
I am now looking at direct market access too, I had hoped to trade via a SIPP, but unfortunately the rules have changed and you aren’t allowed to trade options from within a SIPP any more.
This makes this option a lot less attractive to me, but out of interest I will keep an eye on how the trades perform in comparison to each other.
Regards,
Mark
Mark Rose
I’ve been picked up for not posting here since November so thought I’d better rectify the situation.
After a couple of tumultuous months at the end of the summer, much more normal service has now resumed. I closed both my November trades for profits, without coming close to needing to hedge and my open trades are currently looking pretty safe too.
I hope that I learned a bit over the summer when it comes to trading PIE and that you have found the comments I post here useful. Time allowing my plan is to update my free report to give a fuller review of my opinion of the PIE strategy
Regards,
Mark
Based on £4000 pot staking £10 per point (this is the recommendation from Glynn) on the DAX trade, this equates to a 5.57% return.
Based on £3500 pot staking £10 per point (this is the recommendation from Glynn) on the FTSE trade, this equates to a 1.81% return.
Mark
Hi Mark,
“This gives me a loss on the 2 DAX trades combined of -18.81% and -6.83% on the FTSE.”
I would be very grateful if you could clarify a couple of points for me please?
If we had followed the PIE system as per Glynn’s recommendations, are you saying the hedge trade would have failed to re-coup, or guard against the Sept trades losing?
And assuming this to be the case, could you please summarise how your PIE trading account, since inception, stands at the moment?
A summery would be most useful.
Start date?
Starting bank?
Bank at close of Oct 15?
Overall Profit/Loss in % terms?
Many thanks
Mark
Mark Rose
Hi Mark,
All the results I have posted here are based on trading £10 per point and using a £4k pot to trade the DAX and £3500 to trade the FTSE – as recommended by Glynn.
Personally I trade bigger on the DAX than I do on the FTSE as the returns are better, but so as to be consistent with the results I have always based them on the stakes recommended by Glynn.
I closed my 1st FTSE trade in Feb 2014 and followed this up with the DAX from May 2014.
During 2014 my PIE trades were mixed in with other trading, so I don’t have exact results to share but they are approx 35% profit on the FTSE in 11 months and 30% in 8 months for the DAX.
During 2015 I have been posting my results here monthly with the % returns listed;
FTSE
Jan 4.50%
Feb: 4.02%
March: 3.17%
April: 2.97%
May: 2.89%
June: 3.31%
July: 0.75%
August: 0.97%
Sept: -12.49%
Hedge: 5.66%
October: No Trade as already exposed
Total to date in 2015 15.75%
DAX
Jan: 5.11%
Feb: 5.35%
March: 5.25%
April: 5.33%
May: 6.57%
June: 6.07%
July: 5.05%
August: 7.42%
Sept: -35.33%
Hedge 16.52%
Oct: No Trade as already exposed
Total to date in 2015 27.34%
Regards,
Mark
Mark
Hi Mark,
Thanks for the quick response and summery, most helpful and somewhat encouraging.
Just to be clear about the Sept losses though, the standard hedge was unable to counter the Sept losses, correct?
And the only way of recouping the losses would have been to effectively double up on the hedge? (which I assume PIE don’t advise, and as you say in a previous post, you wouldn’t recommend or do again given the same circumstances)
I just need to be clear on this, as we know events like this are rare, but we also know they will happen again and again!
Re-assuring to know that overall the profits can withstand such events, although if one stated in Sept, as I’m sure some people must have, confidence would have been sorely tested!
Regards
Mark
Mark Rose
Hi Mark,
Yep that’s right, if I’d maintained my stakes I would have lost -18.81% and -6.83% on the DAX/FTSE.
My feeling is that having to double stakes when you hedge isn’t going to be the norm, on the few occasions that we have to do it.
Sept was a perfect storm of 1 day old trades and very fast moving prices, on the 1 other occasion I’ve needed to hedge it was a much simpler affair.
Looking at my results above, I should also add that if I hadn’t doubled my stakes on the hedge trades, I would have entered the October trades, which would have won and I’d estimate another 9% on the DAX and 5% on the FTSE (These are guesstimates based on the increased volatility at the time, unfortunately I didn’t make a note of the prices on offer).
Regards,
Mark
Mark
Thanks again Mark, all clear now.
Food for thought!
Regards
Mark
david
As I told you on July 3rd. I liquidated my positions.Some thing said sit and watch.I did and re-entered the market on 28thAug with a FTSE trade for Oct expiry.This has now closed for a profit.
Despite purposely not trading for 2 months my year to end of October is showing a 34.81% return on my original capital
David
Mark Rose
Hi David,
Just goes to show that knowing when not to trade is just as important as when to trade.
August is well known as a difficult month, a quick look back at the charts and you can see a lot of major pullbacks have happened in August. Very well done for sitting out during this period, it served you well.
Regards,
Mark
Mark Rose
Well I got away with it, but still think it was the wrong decision!
After the heavy losses from my September trades my hedge trades have now closed and recouped the profits, that said I’m going to record them here as losses, or at least as partial losses.
To cover the September trades I more than doubled my normal stakes on the hedge trades. I’m still a bit flabbergasted that I chose to do this as doubling down is a high risk procedure and not something I would ever recommend or plan to do again myself.
Admittedly losing trades are rare on PIE and it did come off for me, but it was still a big risk to take.
I have always reported my PIE results based on the stake/pot recommended by Glynn and so to keep this as a fair reflection of the performance I’m going to continue to report my results based on the £10 stake per £3500 (FTSE) or £4000 (Dax), even though this isn’t what I actually did.
Based on £4000 pot staking £10 per point (this is the recommendation from Glynn) on the DAX trade, this equates to a 16.52% return.
Based on £3500 pot staking £10 per point (this is the recommendation from Glynn) on the FTSE trade, this equates to a 5.66% return.
This gives me a loss on the 2 DAX trades combined of -18.81% and -6.83% on the FTSE.
I also chose not to take any new trades until the hedge trades were closed, as felt my exposure was already too high, so have missed out on profits that my normal trades would have achieved.
I am still a fan of PIE and now that my hedge trades have closes I will be looking to get back in, but I do want to be open about the fact that I took too big a risk to recoup my losses and if I had not done this I would have recorded a loss on the trades.
Regards,
Mark
Greg
It might be of interest to some of you to know what has happened to my account recently. Just before the most recent drop in the ftse, one of my outstanding trades closed for a small profit. This was lucky because shortly afterwards came the drop to about 5900. This was the challenge point for one of my two remaining trades and so I hedged out of it. This was much less traumatic than what happened a month or so earlier because I now had more margin and funds and was able to cope fairly easily and hopefully profitably when the hedge expires successfully. It makes me even more convinced that the key to this system is to stick with a low margin and plenty in the bank for the really bad times. I honestly believe that a 20% return can only be achieved if you are prepared to add extra funds if a black swan event occurs. A target of 10% on a deposited fund is much more realistic. And I would think is also quite acceptable.
Mark Rose
Hi Greg,
Are you spread betting or trading the options directly?
My position at the moment is my hedge trade is looking ok and should recoup my loss from the Sept trades.
Increasing my stake on the hedge trade was more of a risk than I wanted to take though and it might have been more sensible not to increase the stake an accept a partial loss, but at the moment it looks to be paying off.
If my hedge closes for a profit I would estimate my returns on the year will be 40%+, but with the proviso I did need to over fund the account for a bit around black Monday.
Based on my experience I would say you could aim to make 25% spread betting the strategy and still have enough margin based on a £10 stake and a £4k pot. Personally, I am comfortable being a bit more aggressive than this, but think this would be a very good place for people to start from.
Regards,
Mark
Greg
Well, I’m interested to hear that, Mark.
I’m trading the options directly through SAXO Bank. I haven’t got into the spread-betting approach.
I think that I am now feeling a bit more comfortable with the system and it is likely that I might be prepared to go for more than 10% in due course because I have “found my feet”. I do believe though that you would really have to be
a. Prepared to take the extra risks involved and
b. Be investing with a pot that can be topped up if necessary by other funds
in order to be happy investing at your levels.
I would be happy to be earning anything between 10 and 20% p.a. without any great stress. I’m fairly certain I can achieve that.
I wish you well though!
Mark Rose
Hi Greg,
If we take into account the increased returns you’d expect from spread betting, rather than trading directly (and therefore the increased margin/risk of course), then I wouldn’t think we aren’t that far apart in terms of the actual trades we would both be happy to take.
I think you are right though, it may be that during a black swan event you might need to increase your margin or accept a partial loss.
Even though it looks very much like my hedge trade is going to come off and I will recoup the loss from my Sept trades and be back on track, I’m not sure I would employ the same tactic again.
It would probably have been much more sensible to maintain the same stake size (or something close to it) and accept a partial loss, rather than increasing the stake and margin requirements.
Regards,
Mark
Richard
Hi Mark , you say that your hedge trade will recoup your entire loss with double the normal stake. You stated that your loss was approx. 35% on the Dax trades. Previously you’ve been making between approx. 5/7% on a single stake so could you explain how you expect to make up 6 months of gains on one trade. Regards Richard.
Mark Rose
Hi Richard,
The returns you get on options are affected by market volatility.
With the big moves we were having the prices on offer were much greater than normal, this coupled with the increase in stake means I will cover the loss incurred on my Sept trades if my hedge trade closes successfully.
Regards,
Mark
Charlie
Hi Mark
do you agree with Greg’s comment above ie “Trouble is, if you want to have enough capital and margin in your account then you are going to have to have a very big bank to make any worthwhile money. £200k would be great but I reckon you could only safely play with £50k of that. The rest would have to be kept back for those inevitable black swan events.”
The attractiveness of the system to me was, to conservatively aim for a return of 20%pa on a £200K pot: yielding £40K. But to safely play with £50K and return 20%pa would be just £10K giving just 5% of the total pot, which is possible to do with a ‘Zero-Risk’ Investment. Plus not having to invest £3K for the course.
Mark Rose
Hi Charlie,
The advice from Glynn is £4k per £10 staked on the DAX and £3.5k on the FTSE.
This is designed to build in a buffer for black swan events as opening a trade only requires about £500.
What I haven’t been able to work out exactly is if this would have been enough margin to stop the margin call in the 1st place.
I don’t hold all my fund in my spread bet account, but put it to use elsewhere, so I had less than half the recommended amount in the account for my stake size.
When I got the margin call I decided to over fund the account to be safe.
One thing I have learned is if i am away in the future I will definitely make sure my account is fully funded as per Glynn’s recommendations.
My gut feeling is £4k probably wasn’t enough in the circumstances and it was probably more like £5k or £6k per £10 staked.
As a point of interest, the September trades I closed for a loss would have won if i’d kept them open. Of course it would have been a mad risk to take and closing was the right thing to do, but it is interesting to see they would have come good in the end.
As it stands now my hedge trade is looking ok, but I will need to wait until next month to see if the hedge has worked, in the meantime I need to decide whether I will open some new trades next week, or wait for the hedge to close before getting back in.
Regards,
Mark
Greg
Charlie, as you might expect, I have been doing a lot of thinking about this over the last few weeks! I still have outstanding trades which are not threatened in the same way as they were back then and I hope they stay that way! I will be letting them run out to expiry and I won’t be running more than one trade at a time in the future unless I need to take hedging action. I think, therefore, that I will probably be taking a much more conservative outlook with the system from now on. At this stage of my thinking, I believe I can fairly safely make between £150 and £200 per month with a £20k bank. “fairly safely” does not mean “guaranteed” and it does not mean “without risk”. However, unless the economic world caved in I would think you could achieve that without much stress. If a similar Black Swan event occurred again then I believe that I could cope with it using the system’s hedge facility as long as markets didn’t keep plunging dramatically where you had to “hedge the hedge” a couple of times. If that happened, you could probably lose everything. But then, so would everybody else!
Alex Hemington
Can someone please clarify if this system experienced also a drawdown on the direct platform? As one of the users here (Greg) posted previously that he experienced a similar situation on the direct platform!? I though the direct platform was protected from the drawdown element as it is traded in a different way! Someone please explain this to me.
Regards,
Alex
Greg
Alex, see my answer to Richard above!
Charlie
I’ve been following your progress and have been waiting for a ‘bad day’ as Black Monday to happen, to check out the hedging tactic. I was (maybe still am) looking to invest in a £200K pot. Based on your recent experience am I correct in assuming I would have lost £70.66K from that pot if only following DAX and then would have to have increased a stake for the hedge bet that may also fail? As the comments above note I definitely would not have the courage as a novice to hedge a hedge after seeing such a down turn.
The drops may not appear to be so bad if you had accumulated previous profits which outweighed the possible loss, but if you were just entering the PIE strategy this could possibly wipe you at on the first rung. I look forward to see how your hedge performs
Mark Rose
Hi Charlie,
I think it’s important to realise that the size of the moves we’ve had is very rare, the DAX dropped 20.76% in August, but these black swan events will happen and we have to know how we deal with them when they do.
I have had to hedge a trade once before in the 18 months or so that I’ve been trading PIE and it was a much simpler affair.
The difference this time was it was very early in the trades life and the markets we’re making very big, fast moves, this combination is the worst case scenario for PIE.
I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t surprised by the size of the loss and I hadn’t expected to be increasing my stake on the hedge trade to cover this, as I hadn’t had to do this in the past, however I am confident in the approach and that if my hedge trade comes off, I will recoup the loss by the end of next month.
Your right this is made easier by the fact I’ve already bagged some profits, but as these black swan events are so rare, the probability is that you would also bag some profits before encountering anything like it.
The most important thing is to make sure you are not to greedy and allow enough margin in your account so you would be comfortable hedging the hedge trade, which with a pot of £200k, is something you will have the luxury of being able to do.
Start small and reinvest your profits.
Regards,
Mark
Charlie
Hi Mark
looking at your returns from Jan ’15 to date, it appears that the August closure has resulted in only a 5.71% return on the DAX and a 5.59% return on the FTSE since the year start.
Based on £4000 pot staking £10 per point on the DAX trade, this equates to a £228.40 profit.
Based on £3500 pot staking £10 per point on the FTSE trade, this equates to a £195.65 profit.
How much are you expecting/hoping your hedge bet to accumulate and what stakes did you place?
Mark Rose
Hi Charlie,
The hedge trade will recoup the entire loss if it comes off. Stake was double the norm.
Regards,
Mark
Richard
Hi Greg , we’re you not able to hedge your positions , or did it drop to fast to enable you to act ?. As you’ve had a good number of profitable trades under your belt , do you feel you were unprepared for a drop of this magnitude. Thanks in advance for your answers. I think it will give everybody who reads these reviews an insight into what can and does happen.
Greg
I was unprepared for such a drop, Richard, but more significantly I had three trades running when it happened. This meant that my margin was at 50%. This was while using the direct platform which was also hit by the fast fall in values. This could be handled in normal circumstances but because of the very high volatility, it didn’t allow for enough capital or margin to deal with the high cost of hedging during these bad events. Trouble is, if you want to have enough capital and margin in your account then you are going to have to have a very big bank to make any worthwhile money. £200k would be great but I reckon you could only safely play with £50k of that. The rest would have to be kept back for those inevitable black swan events.
Andy
Similar experience here also.
Am on demo while i get comfortable with the strategy but,
Made about 1% on Ftse for August and am currently down by approx 20% on the Sept contract.
Not trading Dax
Anyone think it would be good to have a members forum for bouncing ideas around ?
Greg
Andy, There is one at trade2win.com
Andy
Thanks Greg,
will check it out, do you use the forum and find it helpful/useful ?
Greg
It’s not big at present but it’s got some useful posts on there
Andy
Quite interesting !
Seems to be some very helpful peeps over there, i was hoping it may have been a “members/owners” private forum to swap ideas etc.
Still an interesting read all the same
Mark Rose
Hi All,
Sorry to be slow replying to your comments, but I’m sure as avid Traders Bulletin readers you’l have known that I’ve been away on the family holiday for the last 2 weeks.
Dodgy internet and Black Monday is not conducive to a very relaxing break!
So the good news first, I closed my August trades for profits.
The DAX trade did great;
Based on £4000 pot staking £10 per point (this is the recommendation from Glynn) on the DAX trade, this equates to a 7.42% return.
The FTSE return however was again disappointingly low.
Personally I only placed the FTSE trade at the minimum stakes so as to keep an accurate track record and increased my stake on the DAX.
Based on £3500 pot staking £10 per point (this is the recommendation from Glynn) on the FTSE trade, this equates to a 0.97% return.
So that was the good news….
My September positions didn’t fair so well and I ended up having to close them both.
Because I spread bet the PIE strategy, rather than trade the options directly, when I close the trades I take the loss.and have to wait for my hedge trade to close before I can recoup this.
My DAX trade cost me a whopping 35.33% based on a £10 stake and a £4000 pot.
My FTSE trade 12.49% based on a £10 stake a £3500 trading pot.
I then proceeded to hedge these trades on the Friday before black Monday.
At this time the options available on the IG platform were limited and I ended up taking an October position that is a bit tighter than I wanted and needed to stake approximately double my normal stake to completely hedge the loss.
This involved me having to pump more funds into the account to cover the increased margin for the larger stake.
With hindsight, if I had waited before placing my hedge trade (seeing as the trade i wanted to take wasn’t available) I could have got in at a much better position after the blood bath that was Black Monday, but at the time I wanted to get the hedge trades on and as we had already seen significant moves down, felt it was a good opportunity to get back in.
Then on Monday I received a margin call as the prices started falling through the floor.
To be fair this was my fault for not holding enough funds in the account to cover the increased stake and the big moves the market was experiencing, but it was still an uncomfortable period, having just closed my September trades for a loss, to see my hedge trade going the same way, for potentially even greater losses.
As it stands at the moment my hedge trade is a little down, but looking ok currently and we will have to wait to see if it turns out to be a good decision or not, but even with my experience of PIE (and the profits I’ve already racked up) and my experience of trading in general, having to hedge the hedge would be a very tough decision to have to make and not one I would take lightly.
Regards,
Mark
Greg
Good to see that you appear to have given a very honest sketch of your situation, Mark. My own experience trading the direct platform was almost identical to yours on the Spreadbetting and I am now left hoping there is not another significant fall in the FTSE. I had nine moths of continuous profit but the experience of the last few weeks has made me look afresh at all of it. I don’t know that I have enough money (or b***s) to hedge a hedge! I think this system will work but at certain times you need those whatsits of steel!
Roy
Hi Mark
The last time you put up info. on your PIE trades was 17th July; myself and others I’m sure would like to know how your August trades have performed especially with recent volatility.
Mike
Hello Mark. How is PIE coping with the current market conditions we have experienced over the past few days. One of its big sellers is that it has safety systems which can be employed in situations like this so would be interesting to know if you have had to put those in place and how it is performing if that is the case?
simon
Hi Mark
How has PIE performed in the last week, with it’s hedging ability?
Regards Simon
steve
I thought that this has no risk due to the hedging strategy or is it only a risk if you do not follow the rules properly?
thx
Steve
Mark Rose
Hi Steve, There will always be a degree of risk with any kind of trading. PIE does have a very clever way of managing risk which, when done correctly has always worked well for me. But yes, you need to follow the rules and not over-stretch yourself. I hope that helps answer your question. Mark
steve
Hi Mark
If I were spread betting a retirement account of £100K how much of that money would be tied up in margin and how much of that could I lose. You say that the hedge strategy means you cannot lose but there is a loser in one of the above accounts
Mark Rose
Hi Steve,
As this is a retirement pot, my suggestion is you should be more cautious than I have been, as it’s absolutely critical you protect your pot from as much risk as possible.
I’m quite shocked that i’m up 25% in the first 6 months this year, but remember my fund is money I have put aside to trade with and is not a retirement fund.
I would suggest you would be looking at 15% to 35% per year (£15k to 35k), but this really is something you would have to decide after having taken advice.
I tend to hold about half my trading pot in my account, so in your case I would have 50k in my account and the rest available to me if I needed it.
Taking into account this is a quick calc made on a Friday afternoon, if you were trading a £100k pot, I’d estimate you’d tie up about £25k in initial margin and would be staking £250 per point when you opened your trades.
The PIE strategy trades options so having an understanding of how the risk works on options is important, especially if you are used to spread betting and calculating your risk as stake x distance in points to your stop. Theoretically risk is open ended when trading options.
Kind regards,
Mark Rose
steve
Thanks Mark
Andrew
Understood Mark
What I was getting at though, without trying to say too much, is that the you are basing the trial on the simplest method taught, which after month 1 would mean you always had 2 trades on the go per index.
As you say you’re going with £10pp/4k per trade on the DAX. So you would actually need to have 8k available to cover 2 trades running at once. Likewise 7k for the FTSE.
That sound right?
In terms of Ole’s query it does mean the % return is per trade rather than of your bank, as only half your available bank can be exposed on each trade.
Like I say, that’s neither a fault with the method or a criticism of your trial. But worth knowing for anybody considering PIE with only a small bank.
Mark Rose
Hi Andrew,
Understood and yes you’re correct.
Regards,
Mark
ole
Cheers Mark,interesting to say the least…the compounding aspect with being able to increase trades by single points on a spread betting account could be great.
Mark Rose
Hi Ole,
It’s 6.07% based per £4000 worth of bank.
So if I was trading a £4000 bank I would have made £242.80.
Or an £8000 bank would have made £485.60 etc.
I tend to keep the funds in my trading account as low as sensibly possible, so would have roughly half the funds Glynn recommends in the account, but I always base the return on the £4000 pot Glynn recommends as the minimum pot.
Regards,
Mark
ole
Hi Mark
This may seem a daft question but here goes…when you post up your monthly profits,then say ‘this equates to a 6.07%return’,is that 6.07% of that particular trade,or 6.07% of your starting bank (10k)?
Thanks,ole
Andrew
Mark – I think something has gone a bit wrong there. I posted a question 30 July and a response has appeared dated 20 Feb to a different question??
Regards
Mark Rose
Hi Andrew,
Not sure what happened there, but I’ll have another go!
If you were to trade both the DAX and the FTSE each month then the recommended pot would be £7500 when spread betting.
£4000 for 1 trade on the DAX
£3500 for 1 trade on the FTSE
The actual margin (the funds you would need to have in your account to be able to open the positions) would be around £1000 -£1500 mark, but of course you would need to hold some extra funds in the account to cover the trade as it waxed and waned, otherwise your broker would be in touch with a margin call.
Kind regards,
Mark
Andrew
Hi Mark
Thanks for the reply above.
As it will be of interest to those with more modest funds considering PIE, would it be right to say that the £10pp £4000/£3500 figures your using in your diary are per trade? So to use the method as you are in your trial would need a £8000 bank for DAX and/or £7000 for FTSE?
Tim
Hi Mark
I actually first heard about PIE on the “Cashmaster” review website over two years ago. I couldn’t quite believe the returns he was saying they were getting, but this guy was one of the few honest ones I had found in this murky industry.
But you mention it to family or friends, they immediately tell you to stay clear, “if it looks too good to be true then it must be”. No facts, just opinions.
So I have since come into a bit of money, and desperately want to try it as I need the money to work for my family’s future, but it has been so ingrained in me to take the safer but pathetic returns offered by banks etc, it is difficult to bite the bullet and just buy it.
Being from Australia, the price is very expensive being that it works out to be about AUD7000. Obviously though, if it does what you and most of the reviewers say, it would pay for itself in no time.
Guess I’m just asking for your opinion again on the ease of managing PIE. I have no experience whatsoever, so the 10mins a month or so to operate it certainly appealed to me. I have read where people have bought it and said that is not true, that you constantly need to follow the markets through the month even to get the basic return.
To me, 1% a month would be incredible. 12% a year is about 4 times what I could get through our banks.
So sorry to ramble on, just wanted your thoughts on my position and whether you are still convinced that it is easy to operate and make good profits.
Thanks for your Time
Tim
Mark Rose
Hi Tim,
PIE continues to be the backbone of my trading and I expect it to be for a long time to come.
So far it has been very steady regular profits, with only one experience of being challenged.
The recent Greek bailout negotiations did make for more volatile times and a bit more screen time than normal, but as you can set alerts with your broker to inform you if the price hits a level, you don’t need to sit there screen watching.
95% of the time your alerts don’t come close to being triggered and there is nothing for you to do.
On the rare occasions my levels are hit I have had plenty of time to react and make a decision on how to approach it (days rather than minutes) and I have always taken my time deciding what to do – even if this was to do nothing at all, but it is always possible that the market could move quickly against you as they reach your pinch point, so on the odd occasion you are challenged, it is best to take a look at the markets as quickly as you are able.
The smaller the return you aim for the less likely it is that you will be challenged in the first place.
I hope that helps a bit.
Regards,
Mark Rose
As you are in Australia I expect it’s the home study course you are thinking of, rather than attending the seminar?
You can order this using this link:http://www.thamespublishing.co.uk/pie/
ole
Thanks Mark
ole
Hi Mark,
The staking pots you mention that is recommended by Glynn,it seems quite a lot for a £10 trade,is that basically the margin for a possible hedge on each trade?
Mark Rose
Hi Ole,
Initial margin would only be a few hundred pounds for a £10 stake if spread betting the option, so £3500/£4000 gives you a lot of wriggle room.
Regards,
Mark
Andrew
“In the main this is because the FTSE has been seen as a very safe bet and thus the returns have reduced accordingly.”
Hi Mark
Can you expand on that a bit please? You were previously making 2 to 4% a month so are you saying the method will no longer working particularly well on the FTSE?
Thanks
Mark Rose
Hi Andrew,
The return you get on an option varies depending on the perceived risk. As the FTSE is seen as very safe currently, the return has reduced.
When the markets become more volatile again the returns will increase. This is all normal and expected.
Options would be;
Increase your stake knowing you are in a safer environment than you have been trading in before.
Take a more aggressive trade that offers you the return you are used to, again knowing you are in a safer than normal environment.
Except the current lower returns as part and parcel of the trading strategy.
If you take the course, then Glynn will be on hand to support you when making decisions like the above.
Regards,
Mark
ole
Hi Mark,
Are the July results from a single trade on the FTSE and DAX,or were you trading a few times during the month?
Cheers
Mark Rose
Hi Ole,
The results I post are for single trades as per the method given to me when I attended the course.
There have been lots of opportunities to jump in on a pullback, but as this isn’t the method taught on the course and involves having a little more experience, I’m not posting results for these trades.
Regards,
Mark
ole
Ok,thanks Mark
Mark Rose
My DAX and FTSE July trades have closed, both for profits.
The DAX trade brought in usual sort of return.
Based on £4000 pot staking £10 per point (this is the recommendation from Glynn) on the DAX trade, this equates to a 5.05% return.
The FTSE return however was disappointingly low. In the main this is because the FTSE has been seen as a very safe bet and thus the returns have reduced accordingly.
Personally I only placed the FTSE trade at the minimum stakes so as to keep an accurate track record and increased my stake on the DAX trade accordingly.
Based on £3500 pot staking £10 per point (this is the recommendation from Glynn) on the FTSE trade, this equates to a 0.75% return.
I’ll be looking to get back in again early next week.
Regards,
Mark
Greg
I did the course late last year and started trading in February of this year. I, like many others, found the operators to be very helpful indeed. It took me some time to get all my ducks in a row but once I had the hang of everything I found it relatively simple. There are little tweaks that I’ve found as I went along that regular traders might have already known but I’m happy with what I’ve learned so far. I started with £10k and have made £1421 since then.
£600 of that amount is unrealised profit.
I’ve just put an additional £9k into my account and am going to take advantage of some better prices during this period of volatility while still staying well away from the risky area. I’ve never felt in any danger during this time and I’ve never had to employ the “get out of jail” strategy. I play this system extremely conservatively and I suppose I could make a lot more money if I adopted a slightly more aggressive approach.
If I was a younger man I would probably do so!
Mark Rose
I’ve closed both my DAX and FTSE PIE trades today, once again for good profits.
Based on £4000 pot staking £10 per point (this is the recommendation from Glynn) on the DAX trade, this equates to a 6.07% return.
Based on £3500 pot staking £10 per point (this is the recommendation from Glynn) on the FTSE trade, this equates to a 3.31% return.
I’ll be looking to get back in with new trades early next week.
Regards,
Mark
David
Once again the system has delivered.After 10 months trading my return on capital is 38.9% (46.7%) annualised.
I am holding off for a day or so before placing any more trades to see the final(?) outcome of the Greek situation.
I do have 2 July positions open
David
I decided to go against the norm last week and liquidated my July positions for a very small loss.I have no positions open now . Maybe Monday will bring us some direction in the market
steve
Mark
do you know when the next course will be held?
AlsoI seem to see different figures being printed so
if yu have a trading pot of say £100k how much would you actually invest and how much could i really earn based on spread betting?
regards
Steve
Mark Rose
Hi Steve,
I think all the places on the June 23rd course are gone, but it would be worth asking Glynn and Paul the question if you are interested.
http://www.profitableinvestmenteducation.com/
After that there is another course booked for July 21st.
My spread bet returns will be in the order of 35-40% on the FTSE and 50-60% on the DAX.
This equates to a 42.5 -50% return when trading both.
Regards,
Mark
Del
Thanks for your conments Mark/Andy, very useful
Andy
As i was posting on the B&B thread i just thought i would comment on this thread as i have PIE .
Because i have not had it long and do not want to commit £10 k whilst getting familiar with it,I am spread betting the strategy, though long term i will go direct market.
With the minimum recommended fund , May gave .5% but was late in to that one and have un-realised gain of over 5% as of now.
Del
Thanks Mark,
Impressive results for the year so far!
Can you confirm that if this is spreadbet there are still no drawdowns to this way of trading with the system?
Do you trade both ways?
Have you or known anyone to ever suffer a loss with this system ever?
Thanks
Del
Mark Rose
Hi Del,
I only trade PIE using spread betting.
You do have to play it slightly differently with a spread bet than with direct market access and technically will have a drawdown if you need to employ the hedge trade, as you need to wait for the hedge trade to close to cover any previous loss.
In the year and a half (ish) I’ve been trading PIE, I’ve only employed the hedge trade once, so these situations are few and far between.
Regards,
Mark
Del
Hi Mark,
Are you able to list out your wins and percentage profits per month since you began using the strategy.
Also do you trade this through a SIPP and Spreadbet account? If spreadbet is the outlay much less than the 10k? Would you advise ramping up on a small trade account first?
reagrds
Del
Mark Rose
Hi Del, sorry for the delay in replying to your comment. The minimum you could spreadbet this at is £2 per point, which would need an account of £800
Re the results, I’ve listed them all in these comments above, but can collate here. For 2014, this was mixed in with other trading, so I don’t have exact results to share. I’ve estimated 40% profit on the FTSE for the year though.
For 2015 so far my results are …
Jan:
FTSE 4.50%
Dax 5.15%
Feb:
FTSE 4.02%
Dax 5.35%
March:
FTSE 3.17%
Dax 5.25%
April:
FTSE 2.97%
Dax 5.33
May:
FTSE 2.89%
Dax 6.57%
Hope that helps.
Mark Rose
DAX trade has now closed too.
Based on £4000 pot staking £10 per point (this is the recommendation from Glynn) on the DAX trade, this equates to a 6.57% return.
I’ll be looking to get back in with some new trades early next week.
Regards,
Mark
David
I too closed 3 Dax positions today.My return now on my capital for the last 9 months is 33.4%
Mark Rose
My FTSE PIE trade closed this morning.
Based on £3500 pot staking £10 per point (this is the recommendation from Glynn) on the FTSE trade, this equates to a 2.89% return.
I know PIE is a large investment and you are worried that it won’t live up to the hype, but I hope you can see that I post all my results for all the products we trade honestly, warts and all.
PIE continues to be the one strategy that is consistently and steadily bringing in great returns for very little time and effort each month.
I really believe we should all be using PIE as the cornerstone of our trading method and I have no doubt I will be trading PIE for decades to come.
Glynn and Paul are holding there next course in Sheffield on the June 10th, trust me it’s worth the trip.
http://www.profitableinvestmenteducation.com/
In all my years of trading and trying out strategies, I think PIE is head and shoulders above the rest.
It’s simple, has been consistently profitable and takes just minutes of your time per month to manage.
Regards,
Mark
Henry
Can I just clarify something? Is the 3% you are typically making on the FTSE trade the return per month? Or is it per trade? If per trade, what is the trade duration?
Mark Rose
Hi Henry,
There are a couple of ways to trade PIE. One takes one position a month per instrument, the other 2.
The most popular strategy is to place just 1 trade per instrument, so that is what i report here.
So it’s 3% per month from 1 trade.
There are of course other opportunities to place additional trades and this is something I do, but as this isn’t covered in the course I don’t think it would be right to post the results here.
Regards,
Mark
Mark Rose
These are impressive results for direct market and I suspect Craig is employing some knowledge to select the best entries he can.
My spread bet results posted are based on simply taking a position as explained in the course and without using any technical knowledge to pinpoint an entry, however like Craig I also like to look at different entries and scale into a position for better results.
This is something you can do as your experience grows, but as this isn’t covered in depth in the course, I have excluded these results from my stats and only post performance figures for the simple set and forget strategy as taught on the day.
Regards,
Mark
Henry
So, you seem to be achieving – roughly speaking – 3% on the FTSE and a good 5% on the DAX; around 35%pa on the FTSE or 40% if compounded monthly. The DAX however 60% pa or around 80%pa if compounded! 100% over 14 months, with no drawdowns?!
Craig
Dear all,
I’ve been trading PIE for 7 months now and don’t think Mark will mind me giving a review.
I’m not new to trading, I’ve traded a wide array of markets and system methodologies over the past 10 year’s incl. 6 months with an FX prop firm in Singapore in 2011.
My overall opinion on the PIE strategy is that it’s great. I agree with Peter that this won’t be a totally new concept to anyone with experience trading options. I had very little knowledge in that respect but am now a total convert. It can be a complex looking process esp if you mainly spread bet (like myself previously) but Glynn & Paul provide solid info on how to make options simple and profitable.
I am still based in Asia so couldn’t attend a live seminar day but was sent the manual which is very comprehensive. Combined with a few email conversations with the guys I had the strategy down very quickly. Agree with another reviewer that setting up an IB account was the most work I had to do.
I did initially trade PIE on GFT (spread bet) but quickly realised that I prefer the safer avenue of a more traditional (at the market broker) such as IB so switched all my funds there. The only thing that worries me very slightly is another sub-prime style crisis. Glynn gives a detailed example of how he dealt with 2011 but during 2008 had some extended down moves and some circa 10% daily drops in the FTSE (even one 12% down day). These events happen so infrequently that I feel I’m almost unnecessarily raising the point but you would really have to be on your toes to deal with it. I still feel confident that I would be OK, but you certainly wouldn’t want to be away from your computer for even a couple of day’s if/when it does happen.
Anyway my live (IB results) results are below. I push the limits margin requirements but still stay in a safe range. My prior technical knowledge may give me a slight edge on market timing too:
14 ‘Oct: 3.6
14′ Nov: 0%
14′ Dec: 2.2%
15′ Jan: 4.1%
15′ Feb: 3.2%
15′ Mar: 2.2%
15’ Apr: 3.7% (just opened)
I have bought worthless products before and this is not one of them. 3k may seem steep but if you can gain the value from it over the next 20-30 years than will probably end up being very cheap. Just my thoughts. Apologies if this was long but hope it helps
Best Regards
Craig
Andy
Craig,
interesting read, thanks for posting,
do you mind me asking why November was flat, did you have to use the hedge strategy ?
Also interesting that, although you have been trading for 10 years and have a lot of experience, the spread betting bit in the manual wasn’t clear to you.
I only ask as i have the manual and on first read it’s not clear to me.
I should point out i am an options novice.
Thanks Andy
Craig
Hi Andy,
No problem and yes my November scratch month was a result of employing a hedge due to a sharp retrace in the FTSE at the time (actually occurred in Dec but placed the trade in Nov).
Technically Dec should have been a scratch month also but I tested something out with regards to timing which happened to work out in that instance.
Regarding the spread betting. I do have lots of experience trading FX directionally on various brokers. However trading options on these platforms is very new for them and me. Whilst I did understand the manual clearly in relation to the method, the way PIE is traded the margin plays a much bigger factor than what I’m used to which is difficult to quantify until you start placing live (or demo) trades.
I would just read and re-read the manual. Send Glynn & Paul any questions and start placing very risk averse positions. You will soon get a feel for how you want to do it.
Cheers
Craig
Andy
Hi Craig, thanks for taking time to reply.
Have now re-read the manual & it’s getting clearer, have opened 2 & 3 month,demo spread bet positions to gain experience.
Would have preferred the direct access route as that seems simpler to me, but, didn’t want to tie up 10k while getting to grips with it.
Looking at your results again, i agree with Mark- great returns & long may it continue !
Regards Andy
Pauline
Hello Mark,
I’ve been watching this for a while and am very interested.
With retirement on the not too distant horizon I can appreciate 30-40% annualized return for very little screen time!
I’m not trying to second guess the strategy though I suspect it may be selling OTM options (with risk being decided by how far out)
I have funds with IG so would probably use them, but I have a question please…
Can you tell me the percentage of your trading fund you risk on each trade (or pair if it’s a credit spread)? I’ve read
the comments but can’t see any mention of this.
I appreciate the “trick” is useful, and that one of the main selling points is the no draw down aspect. However, if you choose to accept a loss and not hedge what would be the loss on a conservative trade when spread betting £10 a point (ie. How you’ve traded this)?
Regards
Chris
Hi Mark,
I am interested in this system and would appreciated your reply to Pauline’s questions, sent to me as well ,
Thanks
Chris
Mark Rose
Hi Pauline,
Sorry to be slow replying to your post, I was in Turin most of last week.
I’ll send you an email with some more detail today.
Regards,
Mark
Dan
Hi Mark,
it would be great if you could answer here too, because I am also interested.
Cheers
Dan
Mark Rose
Just bagged 5.33% from my DAX trade.
Regards,
Mark
Pauline
Hello Mark,
I appreciate you must be busy, but can you answer my previous question regarding the % risk on each trade if NOT hedged?
Kind regards
Pauline
Alex
Interesting question indeed!
David
My FTSE reached expiry today and after 8 months of trading PIE my return on my original capital is 25.12%
Mark Rose
Yet another winning PIE trade.
Based on £3500 pot staking £10 per point (this is the recommendation from Glynn) on the FTSE trade, this equates to a 2.97% return.
It’s looking like my DAX trade will do even better.
Seminars now run in London and Sheffield.
http://www.profitableinvestmenteducation.com/
Ref: Thames
Or you can get the home study course
http://www.thamespublishing.co.uk/pie/
If you’ve been thinking about it, now is the time to take the plunge!
Regards,
Mark
John W
Hi Mark,
I’ve enjoyed reading all the comments here and am seriously thinking of taking up this offer, to run alongside my continuing trading John Piper’s A-B system too.
Just one question:
Is the Home Study course as good as if I went to one of Glynn and Paul’s workshops (if they still run them)?
Put another way, would I be missing out a lot by studying this at home?
All the best,
John W
Mark Rose
I think meeting Glynn and Paul is always going to be best.
They are running seminars in Sheffield and London now. For dates and availability you can check here.
Ref:Thames
If attending is difficult then the home study course has all the info you need, plus Glynn is always available on the phone or by email to talk things through with you.
Regards
Mark
Chris
Hi Mark,
Was there a answer to Dans question on the 27th Marsh?
Chris
Mark Rose
Hi Chris/Dan,
Sorry for the slow reply, we’ve been away skiing.
I think Simon has explained it pretty well above though.
If you are unlikely to be able to respond to an alert (which happen very rarely 1 in 13 months I think) then you can set the alert a long way away, but ultimately you do need to be able to place the hedge trade if the market moves against you.
This is unlikely to happen often and when it does there is likely to be plenty of time to hedge, but theoretically if the market made a massive move then you would need to be able to react..
I currently have 4 trades open and was happy to be away on the slopes skiing for a week, so you can see i’m not too concerned.
Regards,
Mark
Dan
Hi Mark
What happens if I don’ get the alarm on time, and let’s say I can use the ‘trick’ only after 8 hours?
Because I do have a full-time job and I have no access to the Internet while I am working.
Will the trick still work?
Thanks
Dan
Simon
Dan
I bought the PIE system back in October after a huge amount of research trying to find out if it was some kind of con. I then mulled over the study material for a month and a half before placing my first trade which was set to expire in February of this year and which made a profit.
What I can say is that you always need to be aware of the market approaching the point where you may need to take action. Fortunately this should not happen very often as you can see from one of Mark’s previous comments.
I use GFT and surprisingly their best trading platform as far as I am concerned is on the smart phone. I personally think it is easier and better to use than on a P.C. If you don’t have a smart phone then now might be a good time to think about getting one.
You can also setup email and/or text alerts when the markets you have traded in reach certain price points and where you may need to take action. You can therefore set those alerts at a point of your choosing where it can give you plenty of time to react.
The impression I get from Paul who is one of the publishers of this system is that he places his trades and forgets about them, just going about his normal day to day business.
Dan
Hi Mark!
I wanted to ask how will I know what trades do I have to make every month, giving the fact that I don’t have any experience?
Thank you,
Dan
Mark Rose
Hi Dan,
This is what Glynn and Paul explain to you on the course. You will come away with a strategy you can implement straight away.
Once you have gained a bit of experience you can choose to add to this (as David above is doing), but you don’t need/have to do this.
All the results I have published are for the simple set and forget strategy I was taught when I attended the course.
Regards,
Mark
Mark Rose
Hi Andy,
I spread bet PIE with IG and set the alert up via their platform. I think Interactive Brokers or Saxo will have a similar facility if you go for direct market access.
Regards,
Mark
Andy
Mark,
thanks for clarifying, can you explain a bit more about the email alert, is this done with your broker or what
Regards Andy
Dan
Mark, is the PIE system about trading Iron Condors?
Mark Rose
Nope, no condors, iron or otherwise.
Regards,
Mark
David
Having now completed 7 months trading PIE my capital has increased by exactly 23%.Follow the rules and watch the amount you risk and believe in it and all should be OK.
David
Mark Rose
Hi Andy,
I don’t manage them at all!
I set up an alert that emails me if I need to do anything.
If I don’t get the alert there is nothing for me to do.
In the 14 months I have been trading PIE i have received 1 emailed alert.
Regards,
Mark
Andy
Mark,
can i ask, given that your day job, so to speak, is testing trading systems etc, do you monitor/manage your open trades on a weekly/monthly basis as the system advertises or do you manage them more actively,daily perhaps, to achieve the returns you have ?
Just wondering if your results would be what someone with a full time job would see
thanks Andy
Mark Rose
Seconds anyone?
Just closed my DAX PIE trades.
Based on £4000 pot staking £10 per point (this is the recommendation from Glynn) on the DAX trade, this equates to a 5.25% return.
Regards,
Mark
Mark Rose
Another month, another winning PIE trade.
Based on £3500 pot staking £10 per point (this is the recommendation from Glynn) on the FTSE trade, this equates to a 3.17% return.
PIE is by far the most consistent, hands off strategy I trade and think we should all use it as the cornerstone of our investment strategy.
Seminars now run in London and Sheffield
http://www.profitableinvestmenteducation.com/
Ref: Thames
If you’ve been thinking about it, now is the time to take the plunge!
Regards,
Mark
richs4d
Hi Mark , I’ve read all of the reviews with interest and wondered if you could tell us if this strategy protects you against big drops in the index traded.
Regards
Simon
Rich
I bought the system back in October.
From what I can see, and I stand to be corrected by Mark, the worst case scenario is that you make very little money for the month that you have to employ the hedge trade.
Furthermore it does seem to me that you have to be more careful when using a spread betting firm because market access is more limited then with a broker such as IB or Saxo.
Regards
Mark Rose
Hi Richard,
Yes, that’s the idea. If the market moves against you then you employ the hedge trade.
You will lose on the original trade, but the hedge trade should cover this loss bringing you back to break-even.
Glynn (the system creator) employed the hedge trade 4 times during the big moves of the banking crisis and I have had to employ the hedge once.
Kind regards,
Mark Rose
Kev
I’ve read the article and replies with great interest. PIE came to my attention around 12 months ago, I have tried various recommended schemes from there in the past with little success and so was put off PIE.
I have done matched betting and bonus abusing in the early days using Casibot so I am aware there are some things out there that are the real deal and real cash can be made.
My point now is that from everything I read PIE seems to be the next real deal.
So, I have a reasonable pension pot, I’m 55 next year and can’t bear to think I will still be working 3 shifts past 60. I assume this can be traded in a SIPP and looking at the returns I should be able to retire and live off them within the next 5 years if this is as good as it sounds.
What I really want to know, is this the real deal, sensible answers only please!!
Mark Rose
Hi Kev,
Like you I am looking at PIE as a long term investment vehicle and full expect it to be helping fund my retirement when it comes.
You can use a SIPP to trade PIE although if you go down the spread betting route your profits will be tax free anyway.
PIE has worked exactly as expected in the year and a bit that I have been trading it and I have no reservations at all about recommending it to you.
Like me, I am sure PIE will become the corner stone of your investment strategies.
Kind regards,
Mark Rose
Paul
Hi Andy,
Thanks for your post.
When you say you opened another trade for later maturity.. are now in the April trade?
Thx
David
Andy,
May trades.
David
Andy
Hi David,
very good info you posted, can i ask which SB Company you use ?
Thanks Andy
David
Andy,
IG Index.
Just taken a 2.3% profit on trade opened on 17th. Feb and opened another (same stake) for later maturity which if successful will give an overall 3.3% profit.It is a very flexible system.
Regards
David
Mark Rose
Funnily enough i’be been thinking along similar lines. I’ve 2 trades which apart from the spread are as good as they are going to get.
I’ve shied away from doing it so that there is no ambiguity in my PIE results I post here, but I can see the advantage in doing this.
For most, the simple set and forget strategy is definitely the place to start.
Regards,
Mark
David
All good things come from Yorkshire and this is a gem.
Having attended the July course I watched things for a couple of months and in 6 months my capital has increased by 14.6%.
I trade exclusively using a spread-better(you can be very precise with your stakes and correct to the nearest penny).I will normally have 4 trades open at any one time,both FTSE and DAX but weighted more to DAX.
Although we are taught to trade on a monthly basis this need not be the rule, as recently with some high volatility, presenting good opportunities, I have closed trades for a 1.7% profit within less than half the recommended time and reopened them for later maturity when if all goes well should overall gain more than 3%.
I will keep posting my progress on this site as time goes by.
If anyone is still in doubt about PIE then you shouldn’t be.
This comes from a hard- nosed Yorkshireman and we don’t part willingly with our brass.!!
Mark Rose
Closed 2 more PIE trades today, one FTSE and one DAX.
Based on £3500 pot staking £10 per point (this is the recommendation from Glynn) on the FTSE trade, this equates to a 4.02% return.
Using the same criteria on the DAX gives a 6.11% return, however I suspect the recommended stake per point might be a bit smaller on the DAX as this is a larger index. I’ll chase Glynn on this and post his comment here.
Regards,
Mark
Mark Rose
Glynn has confirmed he’d recommend a £4k pot to trade the DAX.
This being the case I returned 5.35% on my DAX trade.
Regards,
Mark
Mark Rose
I just took a look at my PIE trades.
I really don’t need to do this as I’ve set up an alert that will email if I need to do anything, so I know all was good, but sometimes it’s nice to have a little peak!
I currently have 4 trades open, all of which are in profit.
If you want a steady, profitable, hands off strategy, then PIE is going to be hard to beat.
You can now also get the home study course or you can attend the seminars (we are now running these in London too).
Home Study Course
Seminar dates (use the reference – Thames)
Regards,
Mark
Mark Rose
Just placed my PIE trades. With hindsight I wish I hadn’t waited until after the ECB announcement on QE as I`d have got a much better entry before.
Still, it was sensible to wait until we knew for sure.
Regards,
Mark
Mark Rose
Just closed two more winning PIE trades. That’s my first full year of PIE trading competed and a very good experience it has been.
10 winning months with no hedging required, 1 month where i needed to employ the hedge, which worked a treat and 1 month that I didn’t trade, but that would have won.
Normally I would post my % returns, but this is`a little difficult as i didn’t separate the pot, but lumped it in with my other trading.
Glynn talks about trading a £3500 pot and staking £10 per point, trading just the FTSE.
Taking this into account i`d estimate my return to be 40% on the FTSE over the 12 month period with the proviso this is a bit of a guesstimate.
I`m not sure what the recommended stake would be for the DAX, so will ask Glynn, but as this makes bigger moves I expect the stakes would be a bit smaller.
I also started trading the DAX later than the FTSE so its not 12 months yet.
I`m hold off on opening new trades until after the ECB give us the facts on the expected QE.
Regards,
Mark
Peter
“Glynn talks about trading a £3500 pot and staking £10 per point, trading just the FTSE.” Using GFT you mean? Otherwise £10K per 2 contracts traded (for the first £10K then £8K per contract traded thereafter), for dealing safely with margin requirements on IB (Interactive brokers).
Mark, how have you found the margin with the spread bet broker? Any wild margin swings?
Mark Rose
Hi Peter,
Yes this is spread betting.
I`m using IG rather than GFT, but only because I already had funds with them.
I suspect GFT will be cheaper on margin and probably spread.
No problems to date with margin as all but one month has been plain sailing.
The one month I was challenged that market bounced back the next day and I would have ended up with a winning trade anyway.
Regards,
Mark
Henry
Above you have said:
“The returns will depend on how aggressive you want to be and how much risk you want to take on.”
…but my understanding is that there is no risk to your capital with this strategy. Can you clarify?
Mark Rose
Hi Henry,
The % returns will depend on 2 factors.
The volatility in the markets at the time you place your trade and how aggressive you are with your trade.
The more aggressive you are the greater the possible % return will be, however this also increases the chance you will be wrong and will need to employ the hedge trade.
If you do employ the hedge trade this counteracts the loss, but you also lose the opportunity to take profits. A few of these and you would actually be better off being less aggressive and not needing to employ the hedge trade in the first place.
To date I have had 1 losing trade that I had to cover with a hedge trade. Because I’m spread betting the trade did lose me money and I had to wait for the hedge trade to close before recouping this.
Regards,
Mark Rose
Henry
One question on the above.
If you placed a trade in October, aiming for say 1-2% profit, if this ends up being rolled to December, does that mean you end up only making 1-2% for the 3 month period, or is there still a new trade placed each month also?
Mark Rose
Hi Henry,
This will depend on your pot and the leverage you are using.
If you have the funds to run two positions you can placed one trade to act as the hedge and then the second trade as your normal trade.
Because this was the first time I have ever had to use the hedge I chose not to open the second position, but if and when I need to do it again, I plan to open both.
Kind regards,
Mark Rose
Paul
Hi Mark,
Happy New Year to you.
Any further updates on PIE?
How did things go for December? Also, do you trade the DAX or just FTSE?
Mark Rose
Hi Paul,
Happy New Year to you too.
I closed 1 DAX and 1 FTSE position in December, both for good profits.
The FTSE trade was the trade i took out to hedge a losing trade I had placed in October.
It took awhile, but the hedge worked and I came away with a good profit, just like it was supposed to.
Kind regards,
Mark
Mark Rose
Another winning PIE trade.
No hedging required on this one, just a straight forward profit in the bank.
I’ve 2 other PIE positions open (1 is the hedge trade I took out in October) both of which are looking very comfortable.
Planning to take 2 minutes out of my life to place a new PIE trade on Monday morning.
Of all the systems I use PIE is still the quickest, lowest maintenance, draw-down free and most successful.
There are still some places available on the Dec course or you can get the home study pack.
Your reference is: Thames
http://www.profitableinvestmenteducation.com/
Kind regards,
Mark Rose
Kind regards,
Mark Rose
Peter
“most successful”..!? How do you qualify that? You mean in terms of commission from sales? 🙂
Forgive me for stating the obvious but your Europe review showing:
119.22% return in under 5 months, 286.13% annualised looks far more successful compared to the potential 25%pa using PIE especially when considering the price tag.
Mark Rose
Fair cop, I’m guilty of getting carried away in the moment a bit there.
I do love PIE as it’s the only system I’ve ever traded that has the potential to avoid drawdowns.
Now that I have had to hedge a trade myself, I’m even more evangelical about it.
In my defence Diff Code Europe wasn’t available on general release at the time, but your right, if measured by % return this has been more successful.
And to answer the comms question, we don’t publish PIE so our % cut is much smaller on this compared to an in-house product!
Regards,
Mark Rose
Peter
Technically that is incorrect if spread betting with respect to the revised strategy. You almost WILL BE in draw down. Firstly to cover the spread and secondly to deal with directional bias. Another issue I will take up with you, is that yes you do not publish PIE but with a £3k price tag your commission will almost certainly equal that of your own much lower priced publications I imagine. I am not here to pick holes with you Mark, but I do feel you need to inject a little more clarity into what you write for the sake of your customers to make better informed decisions. 🙂
Mark Rose
Hi Peter,
I thought i did!
For the sake of clarity.
I personally make a lot less from the sales of PIE than I do from selling products we publish.
This is because our cut is a much, much smaller and because PIE costs more than Diff Code we will sell a lot less of them.
Comparing selling 1 of each isn’t really a fair comparison for that reason.
I promote it because I think it is a great system that has the potential to avoid drawdowns.
In regard to drawdowns i am referring to closed positions, rather than day to day fluctuations in the spreadbet price.
Of course if you spreadbet your trade will open down by at least the spread.
regards,
Mark
Peter
Hi Mark, did you use the spread bet platform or the options brokerage to do your hedge?
The FSCS insures the safety of deposits up to £85K, so where you mentioned people trading 100K accounts I assume they are trading directly on the exchange ( CBOE ) through an options broker and not via a spread better, given that protection amounts are limited with spread bet companies.
The flip side of this of course is that the spread bet broker has greater leverage and lower margin requirements -so you can trade for less for the same potential profit than is possible with the options brokerage.
Mark Rose
I’m not sure to be honest, but suspect they are using a combination of the two.
I’ve only been spread betting, but if I can use a SIPP to save the tax, I might switch over to using IB/Saxo.
Like with banks you can use different brokers to spread the risk and keep yourself protected.
Kind regards,
Mark
Peter
Amendment to the above: It is only £50K that the FSCS will insure your money for you when using a spread bet broker, which is a bit limited unless you open accounts in other family members names.
Mike
Hello Mark,
Do you possibly have an update yet on how your PIE trade is doing this month after your comment on the 10th?
Mark Rose
Hi Mike,
With the bounce in the FTSE my open trades – including the hedge trade – are all in positive territory and looking comfortable.
Of course they are not closed yet, so I’m not counting my chickens, but it’s looking like the system has worked a treat.
In fact I’m so confident in P.I.E that I’m looking for a way to trade it as part of my Self-Invested Personal Pension (SIPP).
Kind regards,
Mark
Mark Rose
Hi,
That’s about right.
3k for the course and then you’ll need a bank to trade.
The recommendation is a trading pot of 10k if trading direct market access or £3500 if spread betting, but I know they have many members trading 100k+.
This is not a get rich quick scheme and is something you and your family will be able to do to generate a steady income for the long run.
It’s important you think of the investment in these terms. I fully expect to be using the PIE trading method as the back bone of mine and my children’s trading for generations to come.
Kind regards,
Mark Rose
DBanner
So £3k to start up and say a 50% return per annum? So realistically this requires a £9k investment to breakeven in year one and a hope that the strategy will continue to hold up after that to make a profit?
Mark Rose
Finally – a losing P.I.E trade (well sort of)………
It’s taken 9 months to happen, but I have finally had the chance to try the “get out of jail free”card that is the backbone of the P.I.E strategy and it has worked a treat.
With the recent pullback in the major indices my current open trade has got close to closing as a loss (not good) but it did give me the chance to employ my hedge trade and this has worked perfectly.
As much as I want to scream how this works for the rafters, for obvious reasons I can’t give away the details of the strategy here, but suffice to say I have had my FTSE trade challenged today and have employed the hedge.
Technically I have incurred a loss, but my hedge trade is still open and all being well will make this back plus profits.
The amazing thing is, if it doesn’t I can hedge the hedge!
I suppose I should be disappointed that I’ve not bagged another easy win, but in truth I’m over the moon to have had to try the “get out of jail free” card and to see it working so well.
Regards,
Mark
Tony
Hi Mark,
That’s very gratifying to know that the “moving the goalposts” strategy really does work!
Tony
Vic
Hi Mark,
I’ve looked several times at your PIE write-ups, and also others on the web. I have held off because of the size of the investment, and I wanted to see your comments after a sudden and substantial reversal – well I think I can safely say we’ve had one of those & the fact that your get out of jail card has kept you in the game is impressive. Hopefully I will soon enough feel comfortable with finding the investment money and giving it a go. I’ll soon be at “retirement” and thought that if I took the tax free element of my pot, say 20%, and could make 50% pa on that, the result is the same as getting 10% on the whole pot without everything at risk. That’s the way my thoughts are shaping up anyway 🙂
Cheers Vic
Mark Rose
Hi Vic,
I’m really pleased to have had to apply the trick and to see it work so well.
Ever since I first learned the PIE strategy, I’ve been trying to find something wrong with it as it just seems to good to be true.
I completely got the theory behind the “trick” and like so many clever things, it was incredibly simple to do, but theory is one thing and reality is another.
So to actually be able to use it and see it work in action was great.
Ironically the bounce we have seen meant if I’d not hedged my trade would have won anyway, but hindsight is a wonderful thing and the sensible thing to do at the time was place the hedge trade and remove the risk of taking a loss.
Kind regards,
Mark Rose
Mark Rose
I’m going to be a little more conservative and say 50%p.a.
The returns will depend on how aggressive you want to be and how much risk you want to take on.
Over the last 8 month (with hindsight), you could have been very aggressive and still never come close to having your trades at risk. Of course hindsight is a wonderful thing.
My feeling is if you are too aggressive then eventually you will have to hedge and this will produce a lower annual return than being a steady Eddie, but until that happens the aggressive traders will be making much larger monthly profits, than the more conservative traders among us.
Kind regards,
Mark Rose
Mike
Hello Mark,
There was mention on another well known site that PIE had added DAX to its original Options trading choices and the addition of this was resulting in greater returns. Is this something you have looked at or investigated or are you only operating it on the original options strategy?
Mark Rose
Hi Mike,
Yes I trade them both.
The theory is the same on them both and as they are in truth similar trades.
Kind regards,
Mark
Mike
Thanks for clarifying that Mark. I wondered because there was mention of some users making 60%p.a and one making as much as 80%p.a! Are you achieving any where near those figures trading the DAX too?
Mark Rose
Another month and another profit for my PIE trades.
That’s 8 months of solid returns and never once have I came close to being in a loss.
All strategies come with risk and if there is a significant move in the markets then I may come under pressure and need to use the break even trick, but at the moment it’s all been steady, easy profits.
Each time I trade I set an alert up and if this isn’t triggered I don’t even need to check them, it really is the most hands off trading strategy I have ever used.
Regards,
Mark
Ian
Hi Mark,
I gather from reading the review of the PIE strategy, and the comments thereon, that this is an options based strategy. You mention in one of your replies that you are trading the strategy using spread betting. As far as I can see it is not possible to do this using a spread betting account – it seems there is no equivalent of writing an option and keeping the premium in a spread betting account.
Regards,
Ian
Mark Rose
Hi Ian,
It’s now possible to spread bet options. You have to play it in a slightly different way, but they potential for profits from spread betting are greater than trading the option directly.
Regards,
Mark
Peter
Mark, what is your profit % for the 7 months so far please. Thanks
Mark Rose
Closed my 7th PIE trade for my 7th PIE profit today. Once again I’ve come nowhere near having my capital at risk.
Placing the trades takes me less than 5 minutes a MONTH and I’ve not looked at the trade again until it won today.
If you haven’t looked into this yet then I recommend you do, you can get my full report by entering your email below my fist review above
Regards,
Mark
P.S. If you can’t make the seminar, then you can now get a home study course too.
Peter
Are the prices you get with the spread bet platform as good as IB? Presumably the spread is much greater also. I am wondering if the tax free advantage with the spread bet broker wins over the spread and price advantage with IB?
Mark Rose
I think there’s greater potential to make more profit (and this will be tax free) spread betting.
This is a lot to do with the additional leverage you can get spread betting.
My only proviso is IB give you direct market prices, where spread betting is always 1 step removed.
Regards,
Mark
Mark Rose
Took me just 5 mins yesterday to place a new PIE trade, which is already showing a profit.
I’m loving this system!
Regards,
Mark
Mark Rose
I closed my PIE trade for another win today. That’s 6 months of solid winners and I’ve not even come close to having to hedge.
Weirdly, I almost want my trades to be put at risk, so I can put the hedging trick to the test, but the reality is 90% of the time, you place your trades and forget about them until they close out for a profit.
Nice low risk trades that on average take less than 5 minutes a month to manage. This really is as easy as it gets!
Regards,
Mark Rose
Mark Rose
Another testimonial forwarded from Glynn and Paul.
Kind regards,
Mark Rose
Dear Glynn and Paul
I attended the PIE course at the end of January 2014 and was impressed by the both the information and the way it was presented.
I have now been live trading for three months and have used both Interactive Brokers and GFT for my investments. I have traded the FTSE and DAX and am very satisfied with a return so far of 23% on a annualised basis.I have no doubt that this system should provide a more than adequate pension in the years to come.
I would also like to say that the support provided by Glynn and Paul is first class and I am impressed that they have both been prepared to discuss the finer points of the strategy with me several months after I attended the course.
Best Wishes
Graham
Peter
23% annualised meaning that he expects to gain 23% after a year in if the performance continues?
Mark Rose
Below is a testimonial from a recent attendee of the P.I.E course, which is pretty typical of those I have seen.
Paul & Glynn, 20/06./2014
I would just like to thank you for getting me on board for the April course, I can not think of any other courses that I have enjoyed or learned so much in one day. After trading a dummy account for the first month I am now trading my hard earned and apart from an awkward moment with the I.B. platform (a quick call to Paul soon sorted this out) I am amazed how easy it is to execute. I will not bore you with the percentages I am aiming for but for me the smartest part of the strategies you taught me was the emphasis on capital protection.
Thanks to Glynn’s tutoring skills and Paul’s untiring support there is no reason why I can not make an income from this for the rest of my days. I would like to thank you both for the great service and wish you well for the future.
Geoff Tosney
Neil
Mark, you mentioned this system now comes with a guarantee but I can find no sign of any details.
Mark Rose
Hi Neil,
I’ve just checked and lifted the copy below from the PIE signup page
Kind regards,
Mark Rose
Refund Guarantee
We are so confident you will be absolutely delighted at what you will learn on our course we are prepared to offer a full, no questions asked refund. Come on the course, let Glynn show you his trading statements proving what he says is completely true, ask as many questions as you like, and if you decide this isn’t for you, simply tell Glynn or Paul during the first break of the day and you can go home with a full refund, a shake of the hand and no hard feelings.
Peter
Okay, obviously the strategy will not be discussed within the first part of the course in detail I imagine. So, is it possible to clarify what the first part of the course entails (prior to the first break)? Thanks
Mark Rose
They talk about the general idea of the strategy and show their trading accounts statements. Or at least that’s what they did when I attended.
Regards,
Mark
Rob
Once i see price tags like £3000 a cold shiver runs down my back as i recall stupidly in the early 2000’s seeing a very tempting offer about a seminar in London with “master trader” Vince Stanzione.He would teach you everything he uses to make a fortune in the markets every day you would come away with a unique insight that would allow you to trade from paradise islands….even had a photo of Vince with his laptop on a beach.I cringe at my stupidity and yes i fell for it and no it was nothing new moving average crossovers etc !!! The hall was full of similar “mugs” all paying £3000.
I am not suggesting that this is anything like that but please people do your research and be aware all that glitters is not gold !!
Mark Rose
Hi Rob,
I remember these too, in fact I think Vince is still pedaling something similar?
Suffice to say you haven’t ever seen a recommendation from me for anything that has come from Vince and I don’t consider PIE to be at all similar.
PIE seminars are normally for around 6 attendees and the post seminar support is excellent. Paul and Glynn are also both heavily invested in trading the strategy themselves and have shown me statements of there performance back to early 2011.
This is why I have been happy to give them my endorsement.
Kind regards,
Mark Rose
Peter Botterill
Hi Mark,
I waited with interest to hear more of the “no draw-down” strategy, thank you for forwarding this report, with the information that it is done mainly by options.
The first thing that strikes me is the correctness of your comment “I should warn you that the PIE trading course isn’t cheap”; it is expensive, indeed, bloody expensive at 3,000gbp even with follow-up support.
The second thought is your comment that “you can now access PIE with a smaller fund”, is negated by the first thought that paying 3,000gbp upfront means starting with a rather large “smaller fund” to have anything at all left for trading.
For smaller traders, there have been many offers on the net about trading options in an unusual manner, focused around selling puts or covered calls, (whichever is your bag), and with continuing support for an annual sum considerably smaller than 3,000gbp. These are mainly on the US markets as they are not into spreadbetting there. Perhaps using IG Index as a spreadbetting platform is unusual in this context but there are options on there that might be useful.
You can look up Amber Hesla Barnett (a former US military intelligence officer and learn all the details of how selling puts is done for free if you take their newsletter, and find out if this is really what you want to do before parting with any money, and she claims to have never to have had a loss with well over the 100+ trades the last time I looked. Their assistance with targeting selections comes with several levels of selection at the comparatively miserly annual figure of about $600 or thereabouts (360gbp approx), – last time I looked but probably increasing with the success of their operation.
You can also look up Jim Fink. He is only wanting $800 pa for his assistance and claims you could make $75,000 per year. Should I be cynical here also? Probably.
The Universe according to Wall.St Daily is another newsletter who occasional tout “cash codes” by Lee Lowell – same thing, for about $1,000 (590gbp).
I haven’t tried any of them, (why? Simply because I get the same 25% returns from a business project already with little chance of draw-down, without this I probably would have), but if you take the above email newsletters (and also look for many more by Googling “selling put options” for a list)
then you might educate yourself for free from the better ones, before you try a very expensive seminar that may only be repeating what others have already been doing for a considerable time, and then you can conserve your capital for the act of trading.
Before spending money, do all the free research you can first, so that you can better understand that which you are paying so heavily for. Sure it takes time, but so did earning all the fees demanded for seminars without knowing what you are getting in advance. (or can you demand a refund if not satisfied with the result?)
Remember, there are few genius’s (or should that be genii ?) in the world, most are just building on what others have done before them,
so whether these guys deserve the acclaim heaped on them by Mark?
maybe, I do not know;
do they have some secret sauce?
maybe, I do not know;
does their system work?
Quite probably,
I only know that if they are so good then they will not need to charge you 3,000gbp for a seminar that may teach you no more than a repeatable internet course for a wider audience at a much lower price, their money should come pouring in from trading (with patience). At 81yrs old and having 10 hours a day for internet research on the subject I have probably become rather cynical about value for money – and about high price seminars especially.
I do not criticize their product as I do not know it; but I do criticize their marketing strategy.
As an aside to marketing strategy, take a look at Stansbury & Associates offer on free video training for options that would normally cost you $2,500 (1420gbp) and his marketing reasons for doing so; would you regard this as a better use of your 3,000gbp?
Always look around (several times) before you sign up for anything so expensive. Money is not so easy to come by for most people.
Regards
Peter
Peter
Mark deleted my previous comments about PIE. I wonder why mark? I have the course and I would argue the authors share a methodology that is not unknown to other options traders and options trading educators with few differences. The PIE authors have been clever in the way they market their strategy to a non options trading audience and hence the high price. My advice would be to do your research before parting with £3K! (Mark don’t delete this one – I make very fair comments and I have bought this course).
Mark Rose
Hi Peter,
I can’t find any reference to a previous post on PIE from you?
You’ve posted regularly on this site and to my knowledge have never been censored.
I would only remove a post if it was offensive (which I’m sure yours would not have been) or if it gave away too much detail on a paid for strategy, which is something we can’t do in an open forum like this (especially as we will both have signed confidentiality agreement prior to attending the PIE course!)
As I said in my reply to Peter Botterill above, the vast majority of option trading systems I have seen are tailored to trading US options, these are fundamentally different to European options and it wouldn’t be possible to apply the PIE strategy to them.
Now that you have attended the course it would be great if you could share your results here. Are you spread betting or did you go for direct market access?
Regards,
Mark
Mark Rose
Hi Peter,
There are lots of different ways to access information on what, when and how to trade, that come in at all kinds of different price points and make all sorts of different claims.
One thing I would point out is everything you have referred to trades US options. These are fundamentally different to European options and there is no way any of them could be trading the PIE strategy because of this difference.
To be honest, you are guilty of comparing one thing you have never seen, with another thing you have never seen!
What I do, is sort through trading strategies to see which can actually back up the claims with performance and I have no doubt that the PIE system has been steadily bringing in profits.
I appreciate that the cost of the course is high and that this will put many people off attending.
Glynn and Paul have purposely concentrated on small, very personal groups at a 1 day seminar and the testimonials they have received from attendees are impressive (I will ask for permission to post some of these here), so these are being well received.
Personally I’m spread betting the strategy. The minimum stake to spread bet is just £2 per point, which is why it is now possible to use a smaller account to trade. I also believe the returns will be larger using spread betting, but you are taking on more leverage and risk to achieve this.
Of course the smaller the fund the longer it will take to recoup the cost of the course and this is something each of us will have to take into account when deciding on if PIE is worth the investment. I truly believe PIE trading is for life and something you can pass on to the next generation.
What you are paying for is the knowledge and experience of people who are steadily taking profits from the markets, on average in less the 10 minutes of screen time a month.
I think you are in a very privileged position being able to invest 10 hours a day into your research/learning and have no doubt this will stand you in good stead, but it is unlikely that the majority of Traders Bulletin readers have this kind of time to commit to there trading education.
For those of us who don’t, attending the course propels us to the point of having a successful strategy backed up with historical data and support and advice from experienced traders, if this is worth the investment is a decision that we will each have to make for ourselves, but to my mind it most definitely is
Kind regards,
Mark Rose